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[Reelya]

There's also the fact that different types of units are more or less likely to have been involved in atrocities. If you're in the air force, you're basically flying around and not directly working with civilians. You can bomb civilians, but every side did that. Are bomber pilots from Japan more "evil" than bomber pilots from USA and UK? They all did pretty much the same sorts of actions, bombed cities, etc etc. Making a distinction sounds like it's relying on racism and winner's logic.

Similiarly, naval units are mostly sailing around fight sea battles. There are very few opportunities to be involved in massacres or the like. You can point to e.g. stuff sailors did in ports etc, like rapes, but every army and navy has that problem.

[Zangi]

*snip* If they have 1 male character + mostly female, then you're much more likely to get fanservice.

Ah yes, most likely to be harem.  Automatic abandonment of ship.

... Meh, I don't really give a lot of anime a chance these days.



@derail: Its the winner who writes history... or well, whoever pays for it and gives it the official seal of officialness.

[ggamer]

Heh, I guess I shoulda clarified that and said the only anime that I've seen. Although, that's not the only reason I like GuP: a nice arstyle and a very interesting premise are the main reasons. I can't wait for a season 2.

@derail
not in the anime thread

[Reelya]

It's not really a derail since it's a discussion about what subject matter is appropriate for anime. I'd argue that a discussion about whether a specific technology shown in an anime is realistic would be just as much of a derail.

[ggamer]

The conversation started with whether or not the ships in Kancoll are Pro-Axis, and now it's gone into another discussion entirely. Which I would be happy to carry out in another thread.

[Neonivek]

Yeah when it comes to white washing... NO ONE white washes more then the allies.

The Axis countries are all pretty open to what terrible things they have done, for the most part, but the Allied countries try as hard as they can to bury all but the most popular examples.

Though GOODNESS I am still impressed Ippo was so... fair to Americans.

If this was a Western Show for example... they would have had no issue depicting them as boarderline satanic.

But what I do love about animes in WW2 is that honestly I like seeing the romantization of the Axis side.

I have had enough of the Super Hero Americans. I actually do like to see Super WW2 Japanese Soldiers Supreme!

[Reelya]

That's helps clarify my point, whether or not something is "pro axis" shouldn't be an issue. Not everyone on the other side was a slathering monster. The common objection to seeing any positive depiction of anyone on the other side, does in fact smack of "white washing".

I've seen the same objection to Grave of the Fireflies, some Americans were offended that it showed that Japanese suffered too, so it is therefore propaganda, despite being mostly a true story. The critics say the film should contain apologetics for Japanese war crimes, to "balance" the story.

Which is basically outright saying that if you lost the war, you're not allowed to tell your stories, unless you slather it in apologies for what "your race" did, which is a condition of course which America would never accept, they'd never apologize for Hiroshima in an unrelated WWII film.

[Zangi]

'Appropriate for anime'...  yea...

Not like the whole genre-thing is equivalent to made-for-children cartoons in the west...

[Reelya]

That's not a very good argument. Look at the manga/anime Bartender or Ristarante Paradiso. Those are definitely not for kids. So saying that anime is the equivalent of kids show's in the west just isn't valid. Just because America can't think outside the "4kids" ghetto doesn't define what animation is.

Almost all live-action shows are more stupid and juvenile than animes like Mushishi, Bartender or Ristarante Paradiso. Should I watch retarded shit like Stargate instead? Is that more mature and grown-up fare than what I listed? Whether something is animated or not doesn't seem like the key criteria for good writing.

Miscommunication.

[Zangi]

There may be some miscommunication.  Perhaps I wrote that line in a confusing way.

I meant that Eastern animation is not equivalent to Western "4kids" animation. 
Originally, I was jabbing at the term, 'appropriate for anime', as it could imply putting it through a Western based politically correct filter.

...  I liked Stargate >.>

[Reelya]

Ah yeah sorry, misread your intent, "(it's) not like (XYZ)" is often used to imply the opposite: e.g. "It's not like we're in a hurry or anything!", meaning "hurry the fuck up!"

I don't really hate Stargate, just pointing out that the general type of show are dumb compared to a lot of the Seinen/Josei anime series. I bet a lot of the "cartoons are just for kids" types aren't actually watching 100% psychological and philosophical masterpieces themselves.

[Neonivek]

unless you slather it in apologies for what "your race" did

Now that is an interesting subject that has been tackled in Valkyria Chronicles... (Darksins being unanimously hated for what they did in the past)

But other then that not much else.

Well ok there are a few but USUALLY the source of the issue turns out to be imaginary... at least in Valkyria Chronicles it was pretty much assumed to be an established fact.

[Hawkfrost]

unless you slather it in apologies for what "your race" did

Now that is an interesting subject that has been tackled in Valkyria Chronicles... (Darksins being unanimously hated for what they did in the past)

But other then that not much else.

Well ok there are a few but USUALLY the source of the issue turns out to be imaginary... at least in Valkyria Chronicles it was pretty much assumed to be an established fact.

Darcsens are a straight up analogue for Jewish people, and how both sides blamed them for everything back in the day.
This is completely the wrong place to mention it, but folks seem to forget that during the Great Wars people over on this side of the ocean were racist haters of Jews as well.

The interesting part of Valkyria Chronicles is that it is from the perspective of The Netherlands + Belgium, instead of the main Allies.

[Reelya]

Start Yuri Kuma Arashi, and I'm liking it a lot so far. I notice that it's got really low MAL ratings so far, which is sadly typical, early episode voters love shitty battle harems but hate anything that's different or creative. People who are more into unique series tend to wait before casting a vote.

[Neonivek]

Darcsens are a straight up analogue for Jewish people, and how both sides blamed them for everything back in the day.
This is completely the wrong place to mention it, but folks seem to forget that during the Great Wars people over on this side of the ocean were racist haters of Jews as well.

The interesting part of Valkyria Chronicles is that it is from the perspective of The Netherlands + Belgium, instead of the main Allies.

Honestly if the anime was more truthful to the game I could recommend it on the spot! unfortunately... no