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Author Topic: I like anime, do you like anime?  (Read 3145183 times)

Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14565 on: August 19, 2013, 09:55:53 pm »

Honestly you are allowed to dislike Lucky Star, a lot of people dislike it.

Heck some of its fans just skip to the parts they like (For example there are fans who only like the comic book shop scenes)

I cannot even get people to watch my favorite anime.
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Chaoswizkid

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14566 on: August 19, 2013, 10:11:41 pm »

You could probably blame the combination of Azumanga Daioh, Suzumiya Haruhi, and Lucky Star for the current state of anime, since they showed that you could make a show essentially about nothing and get money hand-over-fist.

Hey now, The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi is about stuff. It's about an otherwise totally slice-of-life, non-exciting experience being completely screwed over by ridiculous supernatural crap.

I can understand criticism of the original show, though. The movie for The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi, while I haven't seen it, is supposed to be really, really good, apparently, so maybe detractors should give it a shot.
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14567 on: August 19, 2013, 10:16:42 pm »

I don't know... Suzumiya Haruhi is sometimes funny, but it is just SOOO Boring most of the time... and when it isn't boring or funny it is actually very offensive as the show seems to think sexual harassment is funny. Heck given that 80% of the jokes in the anime is just what a terrible person Suzumiya Haruhi is while she physically, emotionally, and sexually abuses everyone around her... Yeah you BETTER find that funny!

Only ONE episode was funny for the entire time without also making me hate any of the characters.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 10:25:03 pm by Neonivek »
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Chaoswizkid

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14568 on: August 19, 2013, 10:19:15 pm »

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Mr Space Cat

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14569 on: August 20, 2013, 12:33:56 am »

I don't know... Suzumiya Haruhi is sometimes funny, but it is just SOOO Boring most of the time... and when it isn't boring or funny it is actually very offensive as the show seems to think sexual harassment is funny. Heck given that 80% of the jokes in the anime is just what a terrible person Suzumiya Haruhi is while she physically, emotionally, and sexually abuses everyone around her... Yeah you BETTER find that funny!

Only ONE episode was funny for the entire time without also making me hate any of the characters.

admittedly I watched melancholy of suzumiya last year, so I can't completely recall the viewing experience, but as far as I remember I didn't really see anything like "sexual harassment" or "physical, emotional, etc abuse". Haruhi was an eccentric and a bit of a bitch at the start, but I honestly don't recall any actions she made that I'd consider so bad I'd call it abuse.

If the other characters were being abuse they could've just bailed out at any time but instead they went along with it and from what I recall it was portrayed as an enjoyable experience. Wouldn't call it abuse, just Haruhi being eccentric and a mild case of controlling tsundere bitchiness.
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Vector

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14570 on: August 20, 2013, 12:35:12 am »

Grabbing Mikuru's breasts as she cried?  I remembered rather a lot of that.
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Mr Space Cat

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14571 on: August 20, 2013, 12:51:04 am »

Grabbing Mikuru's breasts as she cried?  I remembered rather a lot of that.
I've seen girls do that -minus the crying bit- in real life to their friends and everyone just laughs it off, no scarring or anything to warrant calling it abuse. Then again, I'm not an expert on the subject of breast-grabbing and have no hard evidence on whether it could be definitely qualified as abuse or not.

Besides, there was character tension between Haruhi and Mikuru anyway and Haruhi is an eccentric and a bit of a bitch. Seems a reasonable action for the sake of emphasizing such tension (comedy relief was probably another factor).
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Vector

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14572 on: August 20, 2013, 12:53:10 am »

As someone who has experienced it--yes, yes it is.
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Chaoswizkid

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14573 on: August 20, 2013, 12:58:43 am »

There was definitely some abuse. Mikuru was most often the target, although Kyon was often a secondary target (since Haruhi would initiate things with Mikuru to get a reaction out of Kyon). The issue is whether or not it was done maliciously. I mean, it's still bad, but Haruhi doesn't exactly have the same moral code, so it can be perceived differently.

Mikuru went with it because she had to. She didn't actually have the ability to back out. None of them did except Kyon, and he didn't really due to CLASSIFIED.

It's also questionable how bad it was and how much Mikuru was potentially overreacting, and/or if she was maturing from the blatant antagonism.

Spoiler: Support for Above (click to show/hide)
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14574 on: August 20, 2013, 01:23:37 am »

Quote
The issue is whether or not it was done maliciously.

No the question was whether it was done INTENTIONALLY.

She KNEW it was abuse, she knew it was sexual abuse. The difference is "She didn't care".

She isn't like most psychopathic protagonists who are like "What? You mean me forcing you into different costumes actually hurts your self-esteem? I had no idea, I thought we were just playing a game". She is quite clearly "Quick! I need you for your big boobs! STOP CRYING I need you to attract people for MY club so we can do what I want to do"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You need to watch... quite a bit more.... because not only was there... but also

A Character not developing mental scaring because of terrible terrible abuse does not lighten the blow.
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Chaoswizkid

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14575 on: August 20, 2013, 01:44:22 am »

Quote
The issue is whether or not it was done maliciously.

No the question was whether it was done INTENTIONALLY.

She KNEW it was abuse, she knew it was sexual abuse. The difference is "She didn't care".

She isn't like most psychopathic protagonists who are like "What? You mean me forcing you into different costumes actually hurts your self-esteem? I had no idea, I thought we were just playing a game". She is quite clearly "Quick! I need you for your big boobs! STOP CRYING I need you to attract people for MY club so we can do what I want to do"

Woah, chillax. Like I said, it's still not cool. Haruhi is still in the wrong, I was only saying that the circumstances create a perception of a gray area. She also rather obviously did it intentionally, which is why I didn't even think it was a question. She wanted to achieve her own ends, she always does, that's who she is. She's not doing it to fuck with Mikuru, is the thing, at least not directly. Her goal isn't to emotionally scar Mikuru unless it's to get her more mature, but that still isn't the right way to go about it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You need to watch... quite a bit more.... because not only was there... but also

A Character not developing mental scaring because of terrible terrible abuse does not lighten the blow.

You kind of spoke gibberish there at the beginning. "but also" what? I didn't see any evidence of it, and I saw the whole thing. Maybe there's more of it in the books, or in the movie I haven't seen, or my recollection is just foggy. If you've got some evidence of it, just spoiler it and let me know.

You're also absolutely right about the lack of mental scarring, but what I'm saying is that the lack of mental scarring supports the theory that she was perhaps in part overreacting for Haruhi's benefit or only out of concern for Kyon's opinion.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Keep in mind I'm not justifying Haruhi's actions, I'm only establishing that there's a gray area concerning her actions. You can think that Haruhi's actions are horrible abuse, and you'd be right, but you can also think that her actions aren't quite as horrible as other people think, despite it still being abuse, and I think you'd be right, too.

Abuse is abuse, after all. Just because one person doesn't classify it as abuse doesn't mean it isn't. However, the context of the situation very much determines how terrible it is. Girls grabbing each others' breasts or slapping each other on the ass is sexual abuse, sure, but if their response is light-hearted and they just laugh it off and it doesn't secretly really bother them, no one really cares.
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14576 on: August 20, 2013, 02:02:36 am »

Quote
Woah, chillax

Ohh don't worry, I am trying to project my frustration watching the show. Sometimes I even questioned if I should be watching the show.

I will say that Haruhi, while everyone else's favorite character, is actually the character I dislike the most in the show. Though given she is also technically the villain, I guess that is the given.

Quote
Her goal isn't to emotionally scar Mikuru unless it's to get her more mature

what I am trying to say is that the scummy aspect of Haruhi isn't in the question of whether or not she does the acts in a willful attempt to harm anyone (Except when she actually does something to harm someone), but whether or not she abuses them for her own gain and just doesn't care if they are harmed.

In other words she is like a guy who sells fake insulin. He doesn't mean for anyone to get hurt by his actions, he just doesn't care if it happens, or choses to be willfully ignorant.

If Miharu suddenly gained severe emotional problems from Haruhi's abuse there is no doubt in my mind that Haruhi wouldn't stop (Kyon would probably get involved at that point though)

Quote
"but also" what?

Ohh opps, the next line was my but also. She does show mental scaring but mostly in the way two characters interact with each other... and the third one too.
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shadenight123

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14577 on: August 20, 2013, 02:09:07 am »

Don't forget the perspective of the Anime genre.

Slapstick comedy is a key point in all 'Harem' situations. You can logically consider 'abuse' what the male protagonist suffers, (The classic 'rocket-punch on the ground every time he sees something he shouldn't') but it's played for the laughs.

Familiar of Zero has a pretty clear-cut case of repeated abuse on the protagonist (who is probably a masochist anyway, since he likes that) to the point where he also ends up brainwashed by his own 'runes' to obey the master. That is slavery and abuse, because all other familiar suffer the same thing...and nobody seems to find it strange.

Or what about Pokemon? Isn't Pokemon abusive to pokemons too? Throw a pokeball and voilà! You have tamed a free-willed creature into your slave for life!

Delving too deep into an anime's logic and innerworkings isn't going to change the fact that it was done for the laughs and lightheartedly depicted.
Now, if Mikuru had become anorexic, started cutting herself, or done anything 'dark and grime' to showcase the 'abuse', then yes, by all that is holy yes, it would be abuse...and the anime would have probably taken another turn.

After all, it's a wonder anyone retained their sanity. Haruhi is frigging god and no one sees the true problem at that? She is surrounded by people who are 'enslaved' to obey her will, no matter what. If she were even a bit more bloodthirsty, or even a bit more moody, it would be a carnage.

Even a hint of jealousy against another girl's beauty could potentially turn into a city-wide devastation.

That's why a key rule is never to delve too deep in anime stories. Otherwise all Harems should be reclassified with 'Abuse' written in a corner for the male protagonist, many 'anime' would end up getting their ratings upped and whatnot.

As a song says...

Take it easyyyyyy
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Vector

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14578 on: August 20, 2013, 02:16:04 am »

Slapstick comedy is a key point in all 'Harem' situations. You can logically consider 'abuse' what the male protagonist suffers, (The classic 'rocket-punch on the ground every time he sees something he shouldn't') but it's played for the laughs.

Honestly, I can't stand watching any of these either, outside of Ranma 1/2 (and that only because everything in the manga is completely absurd).
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #14579 on: August 20, 2013, 02:17:03 am »

Here is the sort of thing.

I have a limit to how far I will accept abuse.

MOST abuse in Anime Shaden is the sort of "Oww what was that for?" which I can handle and sometimes even find funny. Then there are the animes that delve into outright abuse and expects it to be funny with realistic reactions.

When animes push the envelope and turn "hilarious slapstick" into "Abuse with a laugh track" is when I hit my "point of sympathy" where no matter what happens, I cannot find it funny.

Familiar Zero is probably the best example of this, with them doing outright abuse with absolutely nothing out of place, nothing to embellish the scene, the scars and blood being prominent on the person being abused, and the person reacting as if they were being abused in a straight manner. There is absolutely nothing in many of these scenes that distinguish them from actual abuse.

Quote
who is probably a masochist anyway, since he likes that

NO!!! That was added WAAAAAY later probably as an excuse for her actions. In fact Familiar Zero goes WAY out of its way to try to make Zero more likable by changing the male lead's personality and by changing the majority of his abuse to lightning bolts so it is no longer realistically depicted abuse. It is my theory that the creator noticed he was alienating his own audience and wanted to soften things a bit. He also made sure that whenever he was abused horrifically that there was something to break it up.

A lot of people say that easiest way to see how much it is really abuse is just to switch the genders.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 02:39:10 am by Neonivek »
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