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[Boksi]

Come to think of it, I've never seen a character with an eyepatch have problems with depth perception.

[Tellemurius]

Come to think of it, I've never seen a character with an eyepatch have problems with depth perception.

What about Saito?

[Neonivek]

Come to think of it, I've never seen a character with an eyepatch have problems with depth perception.

What about Saito?

That is mostly because the problems with depth perception are largely exagerated.

[kaijyuu]

Might be conversation of detail there; if you've lived for a while without depth perception, you find ways to adapt well enough. Not as debilitating as full blindness.



While on the topic of disabilities and Avatar, Toph is the character I point to for "how to do a character with a disability right." Her blindness wasn't played down or ignored, and it was even joked about. It wasn't what gave her superpowers either (like Daredevil), so it avoided the "you're special because you're different" problem with many portrayals of disabilities. All her talent was despite her blindness, with her "sight" justified with the local magic equivalent, and other notable abilities (like remembering people's voices like sighted people remember faces) being something a real blind person could reasonably do. A+ job of avoiding unfortunate implications.


I'd love to see more realistic portrayals of of the disabled (physical and mental) like that. "Positive" portrayals that tiptoe around it or pretend it's somehow a good thing are just as bad as "negative" ones that dehumanize.

[Pnx]

Could I point out that when people play games or look at anything on a screen they have no depth perception for things on the screen? Looking at a screen from two slightly different angles won't tell you how far away the objects on the screen are. But people don't seem to have many issues, all you have to do is move around to get an idea of how far away objects are, but even if you don't move around you can still tell the distance by comparing what you're seeing with what you know about the objects in the game, or by comparing objects with the scenery.

Having two eyes is a useful way to calculating distances, but there are a lot of other ways to do it.

[Boksi]

Yeah, I know you don't need two eyes to perceive depth. I was mostly thinking about that one girl from Infinite Stratos. It seems like high-speed three-dimensional combat would be a place where losing one eye is a definite setback, not only because of the lack of depth perception but also field of vision. Really, field of vision might be a bigger problem than depth perception.

[Tellemurius]

Yeah, I know you don't need two eyes to perceive depth. I was mostly thinking about that one girl from Infinite Stratos. It seems like high-speed three-dimensional combat would be a place where losing one eye is a definite setback, not only because of the lack of depth perception but also field of vision. Really, field of vision might be a bigger problem than depth perception.

considering she called her comrades for proper dress apparel at a beach party i think depth perception is out of the equation.

[IronyOwl]

While on the topic of disabilities and Avatar, Toph is the character I point to for "how to do a character with a disability right." Her blindness wasn't played down or ignored, and it was even joked about. It wasn't what gave her superpowers either (like Daredevil), so it avoided the "you're special because you're different" problem with many portrayals of disabilities. All her talent was despite her blindness, with her "sight" justified with the local magic equivalent, and other notable abilities (like remembering people's voices like sighted people remember faces) being something a real blind person could reasonably do. A+ job of avoiding unfortunate implications.

Wasn't it at least implied that she developed her abilities to that extent and in that fashion specifically because she was blind otherwise, though?

I'd love to see more realistic portrayals of of the disabled (physical and mental) like that. "Positive" portrayals that tiptoe around it or pretend it's somehow a good thing are just as bad as "negative" ones that dehumanize.

That's less "disabled" and more "different," though, which is a lot harder to do with some conditions than others. In the case of Toph's blindness, for instance, they basically just made her not-blind in a different fashion, then thought about what sort of different quirks that'd make for. Pulling that off for most other types of impairments is pretty difficult.

[Leafsnail]

So basically the best way to portray disabled people is to make them magically undisabled?

[kaijyuu]

While on the topic of disabilities and Avatar, Toph is the character I point to for "how to do a character with a disability right." Her blindness wasn't played down or ignored, and it was even joked about. It wasn't what gave her superpowers either (like Daredevil), so it avoided the "you're special because you're different" problem with many portrayals of disabilities. All her talent was despite her blindness, with her "sight" justified with the local magic equivalent, and other notable abilities (like remembering people's voices like sighted people remember faces) being something a real blind person could reasonably do. A+ job of avoiding unfortunate implications.

Wasn't it at least implied that she developed her abilities to that extent and in that fashion specifically because she was blind otherwise, though?

Beyond some lines about "listening" being important to earthbending, no, I don't believe they ever said anything like that. She adapted her earthbendering to her needs, rather than her needs making her earthbending better.

I'd love to see more realistic portrayals of of the disabled (physical and mental) like that. "Positive" portrayals that tiptoe around it or pretend it's somehow a good thing are just as bad as "negative" ones that dehumanize.

That's less "disabled" and more "different," though, which is a lot harder to do with some conditions than others. In the case of Toph's blindness, for instance, they basically just made her not-blind in a different fashion, then thought about what sort of different quirks that'd make for. Pulling that off for most other types of impairments is pretty difficult.

You can say they skirted a lot of the difficulties of having a blind character by using the local magic to let her "see" stuff, but notable are the cases where she was cut off from the ground and stumbled around as you'd expect a blind individual to do. Her blindness was never ignored or tiptoed around due to fear of offending someone, is the important part.

So basically the best way to portray disabled people is to make them magically undisabled?

If the story's universe allows it, magic would make it easier to portray the character. Much like any other narrative tool used to make it easier to portray characters. So no, it's not the "best" way, but a reasonable possibility. Now, if we're in a universe without magic and they do that, that's bad, obviously.

The common pitfall I see people fall into when writing disabled people (and other minorities, for that matter) is they feel they need to "make up" for the character trait. So a kid in a wheelchair will probably be the best mathematician in the room, or something like that. It's fine that they're a great mathematician in addition to being in a wheelchair, but not because they're in a wheelchair. The former is a regular ol' character, the latter treats the disability like a bad thing that needs to be balanced out so the audience likes them.

TvTropes explains it better than me.

This often leads to Disability Superpower, Handicapped Badass, Idiot Savant, Inspirationally Disadvantaged, and other tropes that, done wrong, will imply that disability actually makes a person superior to non-disabled people. Unlike with other minorities, it has not yet become generally recognized that disabled people can be portrayed just about any way non-disabled ones can be. In an effort to compensate for a history of stigmatizing the disabled by using them as Morality Pets, objects of pity, or the subjects of miraculous cures, writers will often completely overshoot the mark, going from "inferiority" to "superiority" — and skipping "equality" altogether.

Bolded part is the big, egregious problem.




EDIT: Oh and since we're in the anime thread, another really good example of how to do disabled characters: Kawata Shoujo. Didn't play too much of it myself (the only character I liked was the misogynist guy, since he was hilarious), but what I did play handled it well. IIRC it's got a lot of praise, and not just from me, for its portrayal of the disabled.

[Leafsnail]

If the story's universe allows it, magic would make it easier to portray the character. Much like any other narrative tool used to make it easier to portray characters. So no, it's not the "best" way, but a reasonable possibility. Now, if we're in a universe without magic and they do that, that's bad, obviously.

If someone is magically undisabled, they're not really a disabled character in the series.  A person who can magically see is nothing like an actual blind person who can't see at all, and thus isn't really a portrayal of a blind person at all (positive or negative).  I'm not saying it's necessarily bad to have magically undisabled people, but you can't really say "This is a positive portrayal of a disabled person" when they effectively do not have a disability (or their disability is in practice vastly different to the real life disability due to powers).

TvTropes explains it better than me.

Man this page.  I guess complaining about how white men are discriminated against is a favourite pasttime of tvtropes but that page is still pretty bad even by their standards.

I mean, the examples part for The Simpsons is probably the longest "I do not understand comedy" paragraph I have ever read.  Do they really not understand that the "Simpson gene is carried on the Y chromosone" was a joke based on the male Simpsons being stupider?

Other than that they seem to be mostly "This female character is smarter/more competant than a male character in this show, damn them!"  There's no way to "avert" that trope unless all your characters are exactly as competant as each other or your clever character is white and male.

[kaenneth]

Off the Anime topic I know, but how would you consider Geordi LaForge from Star Trek TNG?

(along the lines of sufficiently advanced technology...)

[IronyOwl]

Wasn't it at least implied that she developed her abilities to that extent and in that fashion specifically because she was blind otherwise, though?

Beyond some lines about "listening" being important to earthbending, no, I don't believe they ever said anything like that. She adapted her earthbendering to her needs, rather than her needs making her earthbending better.

Right, but that still equates to "she wouldn't have been able to do that if she wasn't blind."

You can say they skirted a lot of the difficulties of having a blind character by using the local magic to let her "see" stuff, but notable are the cases where she was cut off from the ground and stumbled around as you'd expect a blind individual to do. Her blindness was never ignored or tiptoed around due to fear of offending someone, is the important part.

That's just the different part. She had advantages to her particular forms of sight as well.

The common pitfall I see people fall into when writing disabled people (and other minorities, for that matter) is they feel they need to "make up" for the character trait. So a kid in a wheelchair will probably be the best mathematician in the room, or something like that. It's fine that they're a great mathematician in addition to being in a wheelchair, but not because they're in a wheelchair. The former is a regular ol' character, the latter treats the disability like a bad thing that needs to be balanced out so the audience likes them.

A lot of this also has to do with just needing to make disabled characters useful and/or interesting. A blind girl who didn't compensate for it in any other way would have made a poor addition to an adventuring party trying to save the world, for instance.

Kawata Shoujo was an exception largely because it was not only completely mundane (dating sim), but because everyone was a cripple- there was no non-blind girl for the blind girl to look useless or out of place next to, essentially.

TvTropes explains it better than me.

This often leads to Disability Superpower, Handicapped Badass, Idiot Savant, Inspirationally Disadvantaged, and other tropes that, done wrong, will imply that disability actually makes a person superior to non-disabled people. Unlike with other minorities, it has not yet become generally recognized that disabled people can be portrayed just about any way non-disabled ones can be. In an effort to compensate for a history of stigmatizing the disabled by using them as Morality Pets, objects of pity, or the subjects of miraculous cures, writers will often completely overshoot the mark, going from "inferiority" to "superiority" — and skipping "equality" altogether.

Bolded part is the big, egregious problem.

To be honest, I haven't really noticed much of this. Aside from blind swordsmen style approaches, which again is usually more about "what if someone could see entirely differently?" and less about "let's examine the lives of real-world blind people."

I mean, the examples part for The Simpsons is probably the longest "I do not understand comedy" paragraph I have ever read.  Do they really not understand that the "Simpson gene is carried on the Y chromosone" was a joke based on the male Simpsons being stupider?

Yeah, but that's presumably the case because of said trope (or something like it). It's less an example and more lampshading.

[Leafsnail]

It doesn't say lampshading though.  It has the same aggrieved tone as every other example of a woman being competent.

[IronyOwl]

Right, but I think they're talking about a valid example and then throwing in what's more lampshading than more of said example, not just completely missing the point or bitching and moaning because the female characters don't suck.