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[Random832]

First of all - I made a suggestion (as a standalone a while back, thinking I'd get this written up sooner) that bars should be a smaller amount of metal - i.e. smelt ore for a certain number of bars rather than one bar; richer ore gives more bars. (maybe/instead you could include fractional tracking)

Also - instead of designating an object for melting, it should be able to be marked as scrap metal. It will be stored in a scrap metal stockpile rather than an armor/weapons/trinkets stockpile, and treated for some purposes like a certain number of bars (the same number that went into making it). It would remain the same item (and recoverable, just like you can reclaim a dumped item) until it was used - if partially used, it would break down into a stack of generic (by "generic" i mean "no quality modifiers, etc" - particularly important if we want to enable fractional tracking - could just have a bin with [42.31] iron scrap) "scrap" - which is kind of like a bar, except it can't be built as floor/wall bars, it's only usable for melting down / casting (see other suggestion thread) / making alloy.

(Also, a "reforge" option to repair worn metal items; this could perhaps be done directly at the forge without melting the item down and making a new one)

Second part - a different amount of material should be required for armor of different metals; since a stronger metal means that armor of the same effectiveness could be made of thinner plate/wire. This would depend on material strength. Or maybe you could choose how effective your armor would be - so either have similar weight steel armor to lesser metal for greater strength, or have a lower weight for equal strength. (maybe even have a sliding scale that allows more choice than just "max strength" and "minimum weight")

[Granite26]

1:  In tandom with a better hauling mechanism, I'm pro this

2:  I'd think that you could cover the range by enabling/modding a good range of armor types.  Ignoring history, Chain = 1, Scale = 2, Plate = 3 and have them use various numbers of bars and have various weights.  It's not 100% historically correct, but it'd cover what you're looking for...

[n2]

Yes the way metal is used now is eww.

I think, to make a metal object of weight N it takes the same amount (weight N) of metal in question.

[Silverionmox]

I think, to make a metal object of weight N it takes the same amount (weight N) of metal in question.

That would be the most flexible.

I wouldn't make scrap usable for smithing, it's a lot of disparate and sometimes tiny objects. Let them pass through the smelter (which would include cleaning and the removal of impurities). Make bars from ore also has seemed to neglect the impurities in and inconsistent metal content of ore to me, and a needless cluttering of the interface.

[Random832]

Yes the way metal is used now is eww.

I think, to make a metal object of weight N it takes the same amount (weight N) of metal in question.

Right - but my point was, steel plate armor should be lighter than bronze armor because steel is stronger and can be made thinner for the same strength; and aluminum plate armor (remember, since aluminum is practically a precious metal in DF, this should be reserved for your champions) should be lighter because aluminum is a lighter metal (and quite strong as well)

[Granite26]

Yes the way metal is used now is eww.

I think, to make a metal object of weight N it takes the same amount (weight N) of metal in question.

Right - but my point was, steel plate armor should be lighter than bronze armor because steel is stronger and can be made thinner for the same strength; and aluminum plate armor (remember, since aluminum is practically a precious metal in DF, this should be reserved for your champions) should be lighter because aluminum is a lighter metal (and quite strong as well)

Can be lighter, but instead IS just as thick and protects better

[Il Palazzo]

Right - but my point was, steel plate armor should be lighter than bronze armor because steel is stronger and can be made thinner for the same strength; and aluminum plate armor (remember, since aluminum is practically a precious metal in DF, this should be reserved for your champions) should be lighter because aluminum is a lighter metal (and quite strong as well)

The way I see it, when one makes a set of armor, he tries to make it as light as possible without compromising the protection value. When you make a platemail of bronze, you don't make it 5 times as thick so that it could match steel plate's durability as it would be completely unuasble. You just make a plate of more or less the same thickness in both cases, one having better prot. value than the other.
And aluminium is one of the softest metals: moh's hardness 2.75, similar to gold or silver(compare: fingernail - 2.5, iron - 4 to 5, steel - 6 to 8, diamond - 10).

[Silverionmox]

That's for pure, fresh aluminium: normally aluminium objects very soon acquire a surface of aluminium oxide of some kind, which is less shiny and a lot harder. How hard exactly, I couldn't say.

[Impaler[WrG]]

make a plate of more or less the same thickness in both cases, one having better prot.

Acutely you make plates of generally equal weight (the weight that won't un-duly encumber the wearer).  A light metal can be made in much thicker plates then a heavy metal and thus it is the hardness to weight ratio that is very important, Aluminum is in fact an excellent armor because you can use a plate at least 3 times thicker then one of steel, also aluminum can be anodized which HUGELY increases its hardness as it becomes aluminum-oxide which is Mohs 9! 

I have long suspected that the Tolkien's Mithril was anodized aluminum as it perfectly fits the description of a silvery metal with the strength of steel and half it's density which would allow for a doubling of thickness for higher protection or a less encumbering piece of armor with the same protection.  It is just barely conceivable that dwarfs would have the technology necessary to anodize aluminum as it involved an acid bath and an electric current.

[Granite26]

Taking a loose view of history (which I'm pro), sure.  There are a lot of apocryphal primitive tech theories out there that fit the dwarves well.

[Il Palazzo]

In other words, unless Toady introduces electricity, aluminium shall remain a precious metal of poor mechanical qualities.
Silverionmox: you must've been thinking of aluminum hardened as in Impaler's post. The more mundane atmospheric oxidation creates a *very*thin layer of oxide which is no longer penetrable for O2 molecules.

[Footkerchief]

make a plate of more or less the same thickness in both cases, one having better prot.

Acutely you make plates of generally equal weight (the weight that won't un-duly encumber the wearer).  A light metal can be made in much thicker plates then a heavy metal and thus it is the hardness to weight ratio that is very important, Aluminum is in fact an excellent armor because you can use a plate at least 3 times thicker then one of steel, also aluminum can be anodized which HUGELY increases its hardness as it becomes aluminum-oxide which is Mohs 9! 

I have long suspected that the Tolkien's Mithril was anodized aluminum as it perfectly fits the description of a silvery metal with the strength of steel and half it's density which would allow for a doubling of thickness for higher protection or a less encumbering piece of armor with the same protection.  It is just barely conceivable that dwarfs would have the technology necessary to anodize aluminum as it involved an acid bath and an electric current.

While aluminum is closer to steel than I expected, steel still seems to be better.  Titanium beats them both naturally.

I can't find any reliable info on anodized aluminum being significantly stronger.  Isn't it just much more corrosion-resistant?

[Granite26]

In other words, unless Toady introduces electricity, aluminium shall remain a precious metal of poor mechanical qualities.
Silverionmox: you must've been thinking of aluminum hardened as in Impaler's post. The more mundane atmospheric oxidation creates a *very*thin layer of oxide which is no longer penetrable for O2 molecules.

Questionable.  You don't need electricity to mod a reaction that takes 1 (acid), 1 nickel, and 1 copper and makes a (battery) and a second reaction that takes a (battery) and 1 aluminum and yields 1 anodized aluminum, 1 copper and 1 zinc

(I make no claim that this is scientifically correct, just a reasonable approximation)

[Impaler[WrG]]

http://www.defelsko.com/applications/anodizing/Anodizing.htm

Says hardness of 70 on Rockwell-C scale for anodized aluminum, higher then very hard steel (62) per Wikipedia's Rockwell article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_scale

This is of course only a surface hardness, the underlying aluminum is still softer, but as with steel weapons the hardness of the surface is important for holding edges.  Surface hardness would be less important for armor and the shape of the armor would also make a difference, chain mails small rings have a much larger surface area that should create a lot more anodizing area.  For plate armor it would be ideal if you could anodize thin sheets and then laminate them together into a thick plate that combines hard and soft aluminum.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Yet more evidence supporting Anodized Aluminum as mithril, a quotation from Gandalf, taken from the wiki article found at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithril

"Mithril! All folk desired it. It could be beaten like copper, and polished like glass; and the Dwarves could make of it a metal, light and yet harder than tempered steel. Its beauty was like to that of common silver, but the beauty of mithril did not tarnish or grow dim."

Beating a metal like copper implies a very soft metal that can be cold-worked, this is clearly a different state then the harder then steel Mithril that forms the legendary armor, clearly some hardening process is involved here.  And it is the Dwarfs that possessed this key knowledge to turn this copper-soft Mithril into the hardened state that was so desirable. 

The fact that the only Mithril source was in Moria was only part of the dwarven monopoly, they controlled the source and had a monopoly on the key hardening technology.

Also notice the completely non-rusting or tarnishing quality of mithril, consistent with aluminum both before and after anodizing.