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[mutant mell]

"Hey, you heard about that Dwarven Outpost by the Mountains of Myth?"
"Yeah, its pretty bustling out there, and its pretty woodsy"
"I'm thinking about packing up and going there, looks like a good opportunity to make some money"
"You sure?  Those dwarfs can be pretty xenophobic."
"Yeah, I think they'll let me stay if I work directly under them."

Currently, we only have a fortress of dwarfs, but eventually there's plans to extend that to Human towns and Elf retreats.  I think it would be cool to introduce the other races earlier, by letting small groups of them live in the fortress.  Maybe not elves, but having a small group of humans live in a Dwarven Outpost would be interesting.  However, I think there should be limits, namely that no more than ~5% of the population can be Human.  It is primarily a dwarf fortress, after all.

So, how would the humans even arrive?  After all, not everyone would want some stinkin' humans smelling up the place, and it wouldn't make much sense if they arrived immediately.  Having them arrive with other dwarfs would be odd as well, as they are migrants from other cities.  What I propose is that, after enough wealth has accumulated, a human trade liaison will ask if some human migrants could stay at the fort, and the player can either accept of deny the request.

So, what advantages could having some humans in a fort provide?  I think these would provide some interesting racial differences.

1. Humans are faster wood cutters, and better carpenters.

Reflected by faster work time, and perhaps faster skill growth.  Maybe a higher chance of higher quality items.

2. Dwarfs are better miners/masons/metal smiths.

Humans like the above-ground, and dwarfs below.  Besides, dwarfs are known for their legendary mining abilities.

3. Jack of all trades.

Humans become proficient in skills faster in comparison to dwarfs in general skills, before taking into account racial differences.

4. Master of none.

Humans take longer to become legendary in a skill, and take longer to reach the higher skill levels.

5. More comfortable above-ground.

Human are more comfortable when their bedrooms are above ground, instead of below.

6. Human specific skills.

Being able to use bows is one, but I'm thinking some other actual skills, such as some fine woodworking skills, such as "engraving" wood.  In fact, make engraving stone specific to dwarfs, and engraving wood specific to Humans.

7. Insult humans, they leave.

If you kill a human liaison, the humans are going to be insulted, and will probably leave.

8. Children wander home.

Few humans will enjoy being so far away from other humans, so grown-up children raised on the fortress will probably want to leave for their homeland, at least for a little while.  Provides population control.

So, while elves may be currently out of the picture, I think having a small group of humans in a dwarf fort would provide an enjoyable gamplay experience.  So, any thoughts/ideas on the subject?

EDIT: added in a couple advantages/disadvantages

9. Better soldiers.

Already in the game.

10. Humans eat/Drink/Sleep more, and consume more water as opposed to alcohol

Well, humans aren't as fortuitous as dwarfs, now are they?

[ December 27, 2007: Message edited by: mutant mell ]

[Nite/m4re]

Why not? There are even humans living with goblins! When economy is started, maybe  some human immigrants could arrive....

[mutant mell]

That's what I was thinking actually, even though I didn't mention it in the original post.  When the economy starts, some humans will have some incentive to work at the fort.  The only thing is, the humans will have to be significantly different to make it worthwhile for the player.

[Zereth]

quote:Originally posted by mutant mell:
<STRONG>That's what I was thinking actually, even though I didn't mention it in the original post.  When the economy starts, some humans will have some incentive to work at the fort.  The only thing is, the humans will have to be significantly different to make it worthwhile for the player.</STRONG>

Humans are actually better fighters than dwarves are, due to being a size category larger and thus harder to kill and able to use larger weapons. Perhaps human mercenary guards?

[mutant mell]

quote:Originally posted by Zereth:
<STRONG>
Humans are actually better fighters than dwarves are, due to being a size category larger and thus harder to kill and able to use larger weapons. Perhaps human mercenary guards?</STRONG>

That would also be doable if they were "citizens," just draft them into the military.

[Istrian]

Humans *should* drink less alcohol than dwarves.

[erendor]

quote:Originally posted by Istrian:
<STRONG>Humans *should* drink less alcohol than dwarves.</STRONG>

Any human that can't live off beer and mushrooms alone doesn't deserve to live with dwarves.

[sorbius]

I don't want any smelly humans in my fort so any human migrants I got would meet an unpleasant end in the fall-o-matic.  however it's not a bad idea for those who want to weaken their forts....and possibly their gene pools....  

[Dreamer]

One of ThreeToes stories has a Human/Dwarf town, but by the sounds of it this was an above-ground town where dwarves were the minority.  So, I believe this is somewhere in the consideration file.

I'm all for it, since I've always loved some variety, even if it is just aesthetic.  It brings me back to the days of Dungeon Keeper, which I think is a close second to Dwarf Fortress, if only because it veers off from the norm and is very much different from everything else.

[Yat]

I was thinking of this just recently, other races just showing up because they take an interest in the fort, or nobles sending their kids around to get an education outside of their own court; Have to deal with the king's child making bratty demands, kill him off and relations fall to shit

[mutant mell]

quote:Originally posted by sorbius:
<STRONG>I don't want any smelly humans in my fort so any human migrants I got would meet an unpleasant end in the fall-o-matic.  however it's not a bad idea for those who want to weaken their forts....and possibly their gene pools....   </STRONG>

Which is why I wanted it done through the human liaison, so that the request would be optional.

[Anti-Paragon]

This might be better augmented once the count... well, actually becomes a count. Humans or elves could live in the territory claimed, or choose to revolt (though that would've happened back when you had the baron). Migrants could seek shelter, or attempt to raid, depending on allegiance. The former might have some members stay. After the outer interspecies becomes less and less short and bearded, the other races might want some people in the main city. Not as diplomats and nobles, but as workers. It's hard to have anything your way when it looks like you're just freeloading, after all.

...then come the compromises...

stupid elves...

[Keizo]

There are other key advantages to humans...

..Their women don't have beards for one....

...and considerably less hair in other places....

.........we could find uses for these humans... yes we could...

[Zasit Alebath]

quote: ...and considerably less hair in other places....

.........we could find uses for these humans... yes we could...

oh yes .. yes indeed

[Red Jackard]

Eh? I thought the overly hairy dwarves were for another setting, not this one.