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Author Topic: On shields.  (Read 895 times)

n2

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On shields.
« on: December 06, 2008, 07:51:22 am »

In short, I think it would be right if a shield user could only block attacks from the front. (AFAIK right now shields give a chance to block attacks from any direction)
But in DF there are no "fronts" and if there were you couldn't tell without advanced graphics where <creature> is looking, and it would complicate things because you would have to turn in place in adventurer mode so the idea is like this:

1) A dwarf (replace dwarf with any other creature) cant block a surprise attack.
2) A dwarf can turn in place pretty fast. Fast enough to try to block one attack from any direction, if he's aware of it.
3) A dwarf can try to block several attacks if they are coming from one set of directions, depending on the shield (and skill - that would be nice). For example a buckler and novice shield skill result in covering 1 directions out of 8, but a larger shield or better skill would cover 2. Like this (0 are not covered directions, # covered, d - dwarf):

buckler
0#0
0d0
000

shield
0##
0d0
000

A legendary shield user
###
#d#
#0#

A dwarf with a shield and novice skill is surrounded by carp. A carpy situation it is.
aaa
ad0
0a0

Carp 1 attacks, dwarf defends and now can only try to block attacks from carps marked by #.
#1#
ad0
0a0
Carp 2 attacks and the dwarf tries to block. Regardless of whether it was blocked or not, the dwarf can't block attacks from other directions, until he gets another turn and his blocking position is reset.
21a
ad0
0a0
It means that until the blocking position is reset, the dwarf can try to block any number of attacks from directions 1 and 2 but not from others. He's fully open to 3 carpy attacks.

Doesn't it suck? Well of course it does! To compensate, the chance to successfully block an attack should be increased. Also, the same rule works for ranged attacks too.

First of all it should weaken ranged (well and melee too) attacks in adventurer mode against shield users. One person cant attack from several directions. To make things better for those without shields, a parrying can be introduced in a form of x/8 directional chance to block using the weapon skill instead of shield skill. (it is sensible to make x a worse modifier than one of a buckler, for example 0 at lower skill levels, which means no chance)
Also it will make attacks from several directions against player more effective in adventurer mode. On the other hand it would mean better chances to get close to a single shooter (nerfing archery again)

In fortress mode, it would mean that surrounding is more effective than attacking from one side. It should significantly weaken ranged attacks from one direction.

The idea is still raw and unrefined I just thought about it and wrote right away.

edit: the first attack may or may not indicate the "center" of covered area. If it does, even a legendary shield user can't block attacks from 2 opposite directions.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 08:04:01 am by n2 »
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TrombonistAndrew

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Re: On shields.
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2008, 05:41:46 am »

A simpler solution exists in some other roguelike games:

The shield gets one block chance per character turn.
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Silverionmox

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Re: On shields.
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2008, 08:28:14 am »

Someone who has a shield on his left arm could block attacks from the left, the left front and the front. If it's a tower shield, he's effectively covered from attacks from one side, no matter how many. If he has a smaller shield, he also has a chance of blocking attacks from an adjacent side (decreasing with the number of attacks) in exchange for not being guaranteed to block attacks from the direction his shield is normally facing.
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Neonivek

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Re: On shields.
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2008, 09:22:22 am »

A simpler solution exists in some other roguelike games:

The shield gets one block chance per character turn.

I don't know... You can infinately counter attack so why not infinately block? besides being able to block only once makes little sense.
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n2

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Re: On shields.
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2008, 12:31:36 pm »

A simpler solution exists in some other roguelike games:

The shield gets one block chance per character turn.
So you have a tower shield and there are 100 arrows flying from the same direction and you can block ONE of them? No, I dont think it's right. Even by just holding a shield you have a chance to block an attack if enemy is dumb enough (or is in a hurry, or has little room to attack).

Someone who has a shield on his left arm could block attacks from the left, the left front and the front. If it's a tower shield, he's effectively covered from attacks from one side, no matter how many. If he has a smaller shield, he also has a chance of blocking attacks from an adjacent side (decreasing with the number of attacks) in exchange for not being guaranteed to block attacks from the direction his shield is normally facing.
Where is left hand? Where does my shield "normally" face?
. . .
.@.
. . .
What you say is rational but creatures in DF don't face any direction, AFAIK.
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Neonivek

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Re: On shields.
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2008, 12:32:56 pm »

He also seems to discount the existance of "The Backhand" and "Turning"
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Footkerchief

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Re: On shields.
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2008, 01:40:18 pm »

In case anybody is interested, we're discussing how to track the location of shields (and weapons) to make them interact more realistically in this thread too: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=28156.msg354290#msg354290
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n2

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Re: On shields.
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2008, 04:09:46 pm »

In case anybody is interested, we're discussing how to track the location of shields (and weapons) to make them interact more realistically in this thread too: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=28156.msg354290#msg354290
Replying there
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