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[mickel]

Because you know you want it. More primitive than goblins, they'd live in the levels below dwarven fortresses and human settlements, tunneling their warrens into sewers and cellars, and living off of refuse.

Their weapons could be mainly bone and stone and leather. I picture spears, swords, clubs, daggers and crossbows...

In the depth of their warrens, alchemists would brew rotten meat and other refuse into potent poisons for their weapons and their nasty traps.

And picture a ratman ballista firing skulls filled with some concoction that spreads a potent miasma blinding everyone and causing them to vomit uncontrollably...

Yes, I know I'm totally ripping off skaven.   :p

[Chaos]

I like it, playing as a less advanced civilization sounds interesting as well (Goblins count as being as advanced as the other three).
Though it seems to me like the primitive civilizations (ratmen, lizardmen, batmen et cetera) don't really use weapons and armour or even cloathing. Perhaps they would be more along the lines of scavengers (ratmen in particular).

[mickel]

Nothing prevents them from starting out that way, but I could definitely see them rising up under the guiding hand of the player. Perhaps they could be limited in that metalsmiths are something they can only gain like dwarf fortresses gain nobles? As in, there are ratmen who know the dark hidden secrets of taming metals, but they are rare and only given to select warrens by the rat king?

[FaultyLogic]

I like it too, it would be fun both in some sort of fortress mode and adventure mode. You could play a peaceful ratman group and live below a fortress cellar. And sneak up at night and grab foods from their stock. Or you could lurk by the edge of a chasm and drag unaware bystanders down to a certain death. And then loot their gear.

I think it would really entertaining to play scavengers, armed with simble bone tools and weapons. Perhaps som rock and wood clubs or axes would be fitting too. We already know they use blowguns.

[Asehujiko]

Ratman playing guide:
Rush for chasm.
Station every single soldier at fort level.
When miner enters, abduct his pick.
Dig to magma.
Build channel to magma.
Aquaduct over hasm.
Link aquaduct to dwarf entrace.
Flush out the fort.
Enjoy!

[Chaos]

quote:Originally posted by mickel:
<STRONG>Perhaps they could be limited in that metalsmiths are something they can only gain like dwarf fortresses gain nobles? As in, there are ratmen who know the dark hidden secrets of taming metals, but they are rare and only given to select warrens by the rat king?</STRONG>

An interesting idea as, naturally, more primitive cultures won't have nobles in the same way as more advanced ones. So the noble inhabitants of primitive society may in fact be the actually most productive members of it (as opposed to nobility among the more "advanced" civilizations  :roll: ), with individuals possesing unusual skills posessing greater status or even reverance.

[Haedrian]

Having an inferior race.. would need good tactics..

Dragging a single dwarf down to beat him up, stealing his items to be able to stand a chance...

I'd like the idea

And obviously the most daring deed of goign to the surface to put rocks on top of the underconstruction channel, to prevent the magma flow...

[mickel]

Shamen in their various incarnations come to mind. If metalsmithing is something mystical and known to extremely few, then the "medicine man" who knows how to do it would certainly be quite influential.

[nerdpride]

Ratmen would only get metal items from enslavement, methinks.  Dwarves wouldn't like it, but ratmen wouldn't mind, which would be one advantage for playing as a technologically inferior race.  If you could capture their legendary smith, and a good source of ore and wood, then you'd get all the stuff you want!  Of course, I think ratmen would have a little trouble with that.  

They probably wouldn't have any miners like the dwarves do, they would have to live in the chasm and survive off of the other creatures, maybe some type of mold would provide a renewable source of food, unless they caught a real dwarven or goblin miner.

Another interesting thing would be to play as batmen, because they can fly.  That opens up a lot of strategic options.

[Chaos]

quote:Originally posted by nerdpride:
<STRONG>Ratmen would only get metal items from enslavement, methinks.</STRONG>

This relates to the slavery topic I think: War and Slavery
I agree that slavery seems like something that ratmen would advocate. (*cough*Skaven*cough*  :roll: )

 

quote:Originally posted by nerdpride:
<STRONG>Another interesting thing would be to play as batmen, because they can fly.  That opens up a lot of strategic options.</STRONG>

The same should be true for the water-dwelling beastmen i.e. Lizardmen and Snakemen.

[ August 19, 2007: Message edited by: Chaos ]

[Zaratustra]

Ratman Chasm - Stories of Scrounging And Gnawing

[AlanL]

What if you start out primitive, but could reverse engineer dwarven technology until youre as advanced as they are?

This could lead to some interesting decisions. Do you use the anvil youve managed to capture, or bust it apart, ruining it but potentially allowing you to make anvils yourself?

[ August 19, 2007: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[nerdpride]

What's "Skaven" anyways?  Sounds like it might be something worth looking into.

[Chaos]

quote:Originally posted by nerdpride:
<STRONG>What's "Skaven" anyways?  Sounds like it might be something worth looking into.</STRONG>

A race from Warhammer, check it: Skaven.

[Dreamer]

I like this idea.

Once we open up one primitive race, however, one won't be enough, and we'd have to have most, or all, of them available.  Not only that, but I think that ratmen, lizardmen (My favorite), frogmen and batmen don't have the mental capacity as other humanoids, so technology doesn't really work unless you include basic tools that are scavanged from other races.

For slavery, there's the language and social barrier: Not only would ratment have different languages than dwarves, but I'm fairly sure that a legendary dwarven smith would refuse to make anything for simple barbarians, if not outright kill everyone in your warren.

It's something to think about, though; maybe it could go along with adding more playable races in adventure mode (Such as minotaurs and such).  Scavanging definately sounds something more suited for personal interaction.

(Which gives me another idea...  Goblin Thief!  Steal the horde from the greedy dwarves! Strike the beard!)