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Author Topic: Airlands Project  (Read 43327 times)

PTTG??

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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2008, 12:04:11 pm »

I agree, Servant Corps. and Dr.Z. We want to avoid having a "best possible" land type. That is what this matrix is for; some tiles, such as dry, clear mountains, are good for mining, while moist, level ground is good for farming. There is no combination that works "best", but there is enough variation so that you can have a flavor to your island without crippling yourself (say, by making it all too hot to farm because you want an "Arabian" theme. Instead, you just have some areas that are merely warm and are moist enough to get some food from.)

It is definitely true that this needs to be balanced. I just used some quick numbers to get my point across. Hmmm...

Vactor, I use a 3D modeler called "Art of Illusion". I'm no pro, but you mentioned you needed some art resources; I'd be glad to help.

Edit:
I meant to to ask; what form of models are you using? I'm sure you're using Blender for your work, but I'm not very conversant in it's standards. I can almost certainly export stuff to your format.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 03:56:30 pm by PTTG?? »
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Tahin

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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2008, 04:24:40 pm »

As far as unit customization goes, I was thinking less as far as being able to paint your troops pink for bonuses, more that you could give them different armors and weapons which would have various strengths and weaknesses. You should also be able to color them however you want, to give a little flavor, but that really shouldn't have much affect, unless you want to get into camouflage, but I don't think that quite fits the setting. Then again, Ninjas wearing florescent orange should take a penalty to their ability to sneak around.

I was thinking about how docking should work. I'd like to see you be able to simple bump into someone on the same Z level to be consider docked. As long as one tile is touching, you should be able to send troops and caravans over, and such. Breaking away shouldn't be too much more difficult than simply moving. To keep the other airland from running away, you would have some special units or buildings that could "latch on." I imagine some large claw-creature or a giant hook would work nicely. You could then toggle whether you want to move in the opposite direction of the enemy, effectively rendering the two airlands immobile, assuming the one trying to move is of equal or lesser power than the one trying to stay put. This would allow weaker defenders designed for speed, such as traders, to drag the battle towards some friends.

It should be possible to dock and latch on without it being considered an offensive act, in the event that, for instance, your friend runs out of "fuel" and you need to tow him, or if, as I stated above, you and a few friends wanted to join up to form a larger airland.
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PTTG??

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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #92 on: December 09, 2008, 04:55:16 pm »

I quite agree with Tahin, though I would add that the "pulling away" part be part of the mechanics of combat- if you try to break off attack, you might break off some of your own land as well!

Ok I've been playing with my modeler for a while here. I've put together a mock-up of some terrains. They all use the same texture that changes with the parameters applied. Note that in future versions, things like mountain patterns and forest shapes could be randomly generated for each tile, thus avoiding "tiling".

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Aqizzar

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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #93 on: December 09, 2008, 05:00:35 pm »

How difficult would it be to make some transition masks, so there's not such a clean break between tiles?  Brute force solution would be a bunch of textures keyed to different tile types being next to each other and just laying where needed.
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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2008, 05:07:03 pm »

please make for mac! This game sounds awesome!
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Helmaroc

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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2008, 05:23:45 pm »

please make for mac!

Seconded. I might have had a different choice of words, but same implication. If you think it's going to start off fairly unknown, it would be wise to support at least the 3 main OS's, PC, Mac, and Linux. In my opinion. Unless of course this will be browser based, because then it would matter a lot less.
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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #96 on: December 09, 2008, 05:34:13 pm »

How difficult would it be to make some transition masks, so there's not such a clean break between tiles?  Brute force solution would be a bunch of textures keyed to different tile types being next to each other and just laying where needed.

Actually, that might not even be necessary, seeing as each tile is its own unit, and really the only transition should be a few bridges and ropes, etc. to tie it in.  Each tile would only have a gentle (or maybe not so gentle) drop off at its edge, so you'd get little valleys between hexes.

Maybe some kind of irrigation/transport mechanism could be built around the valleys between them.
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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #97 on: December 09, 2008, 05:57:11 pm »

Hmmm... I was under the impression that multiple tiles formed a single landmass, still have to make them blend in my mockup. I know that it's technically possible to make transitions (and believe me I'd love to have them in my mockup), but it's beyond my current system.
As an addition to transition, It should be possible to have tiles of similar types connect and have unique appearances. Such a setup would look better without putting a lot of load on the network, though it would put more load onto client machines.

EDIT: Better Mock-ups!!!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 07:57:32 pm by PTTG?? »
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Tahin

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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #98 on: December 09, 2008, 08:13:33 pm »

Wow. That looks pretty good, PTTG. You know if the software you're both using shares a common file-type, or is that program you use pretty versatile?
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Vactor

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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #99 on: December 09, 2008, 09:08:26 pm »

Hey guys,

First off very nice work PTTG??
I'm spening some quality time with the GF this evening, so code updates probably won't come till later on tonight.

As far as the spread sheet goes, It would be a great way to get, as you said, orderly tile variation.  I would say to take it a step further to individualize tiles instead of a scale of 1-10 why not 1-1000, where for instance a mountain tile can range from +100 to +300 in ease of mining.  Much like what i'd like to do with resource attributes.  Also I think the best way to implement this is to make the bonuses tied to the creatures rather than the tile.  Rather than a dry tile giving + whatever food, have a creature with +whatever food for dry tiles.  I'm going to want to go with these stats affecting ease of resource gathering and ease of travel rather then blanket bonuses.  A little less abstract than the Civ games, so that your citizens still have to go out and chop lumber.

using the variable bonuses based on range you will get a range of tile values which can weigh on tile placement, even amongst two tiles of the same type. A tile with all nearly max stats would be something someone would want to hold onto, and make raiding other players give better returns than pulling up random generic tiles from the ground or from npc and wild airlands.


I probalby wont be having a zoom to local level though, at least not right now.

GF is back from walking the dog, so i'll get to more questions later.

Also:  right now i've been using XSI 6 Mod Tool, and using FBX format for models.  as far as my standard unit, 1 hex has a radius of 2 basic units, the center hex subtile is then 1 unit radius.  I'll have more info on model standards. 

Also PTTG those mock ups look great, but my only concern would be the poly count and structure placement. (also is there a good reason for me to be using blender rather than xsi 6 mod tool?  I don't really have any sentimental attachment to it, its just what i've got.)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 09:11:07 pm by Vactor »
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PTTG??

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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #100 on: December 10, 2008, 02:20:30 am »

Funny thing is, those are four triangle surfaces, with annother 12 tri for the borders, and then they have a fancy displacement mesh that fills them out with elevations and probably is a few hundred tri a piece. Hmm... I'll try messing with them, but in order to really improve them, I need to know how "big" a tile is, especially to know what to do for building size. Does a tile represent a mile, or a hundred miles, or what? If you want to have fine-grained resources and units, I'd say have a tile be a little larger than a 1/4 x 1/4 mile area.
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Vactor

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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #101 on: December 10, 2008, 02:35:32 am »

Did some reading up on some of the various UI techniques, I'll hopefully have something to show for it tomorrow.  I added some functionality to the window, it should automatically scale the window size to fit within whatever resolution you are using leaving room for the taskbar.  Alt enter should work to make it full screen now, and esc will exit the window.

Here is the current code, which i cleaned up a bit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

and the Airland class code:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm still teaching myself a lot of this so if anyone notices any glaring flaws in my code please point them out  ::)


I am going to be going for unit customization similar to Alpha Centauri, even though I hadn't realized it when i was doing the planning.  How I would like the game to work is thusly:

you have a population
you have some of that population levied into your military.  They can then train in the use of various types of equipment, becoming more adept over time.  You will need to obtain the equipment that your military will be equipped with.  Perhaps your friend has a great batch of iron he is making into high quality swords, he sends you a shipment of 100 of his latest batch, which you give to your soldiers.  Local wildlife has been plentiful and you have a good deal of extra leather that you have been tanning.  You are able to focus your population's efforts on turning those hides into leather armor, which being made by unskilled peasantry turn out rather poor quality, but better than nothing.

While it will have an effect on your army as swordsmen may be fairly balanced against other melee weapon types. My goal is such that there will never be a "wearing pink gives you +5 attack" scenario.  I would rather have the player decide "well wearing pink is great against people wearing brown, even if those wearing green have an advantage against it.... hmm maybe i should stick with wearing a balanced color like orange."  By fine tuning the way that the advantages and disadvantages spread, I think that it creates a system where armies are based around achieving a balance, while also creating a wide variety of troop types.

In battle the idea is going to be that your units will generally rout rather than be annihilated, so while you make suffer a defeat, your armies may lose men, but won't be annihilated like a general RTS. 

I would like units of soldiers to have a wide variety of stats that are tracked, similarly to Civil War Generals 1 and 2, where each unit measured its level of organization, how bloodied they were, and its morale, which affected their capacity to fight, and willingness to follow orders.  These were things that were affected by the skills of their commanding officer, and could be improved by resting the unit. (a good commander like sherman could reorganize his unit much better than a skill-less one)

I haven't plotted out what stats I would like to include and their effects, but I do have some ideas.

Currently in my mind docking is simply put, bumping into another airland.  I've considered grapples, and how to catch someone, this will likely have a magical explanation, but there will be some sort of mechanic to ensure that you can engage in combat with a target that you want to attack even if they are aware that you are attacking ( ie i don't want people to just be able to move away from you at the same speed)  And there will be a mechanic that allows for one player to retreat from the fight at the cost of losing tiles.

Once we get to the point of a working game i'll start looking at ports to mac and linux, if someone more familiar with these wants to do it before then i'd be more than happy to provide whatever data they need.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 02:42:02 am by Vactor »
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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #102 on: December 10, 2008, 02:53:31 am »

Does a tile represent a mile, or a hundred miles, or what? If you want to have fine-grained resources and units, I'd say have a tile be a little larger than a 1/4 x 1/4 mile area.

A good amount of scale is going to have to be abstracted to keep the map readable by the player.  What I was looking at when planning this was having 7 places for building on each tile, the 1/2 sized hexagon in the center of the tile, and each of the six half hexagons surrounding it could be shared with the tile next to it to have a structure placed on it.  These would also be the tiles that units are scaled to, being able to stand in a half hexagon and face the tile edge.  This would allow an artillery type unit to be guarded by units in the same full sized tile.
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Boksi

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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #103 on: December 10, 2008, 09:05:39 am »

Maybe docking could involve your airland's flight spell interlocking with the other airland's flight spell? Something like that?
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Re: Airlands Project
« Reply #104 on: December 10, 2008, 10:12:33 am »

What I was looking at when planning this was having 7 places for building on each tile, the 1/2 sized hexagon in the center of the tile, and each of the six half hexagons surrounding it could be shared with the tile next to it to have a structure placed on it.  These would also be the tiles that units are scaled to, being able to stand in a half hexagon and face the tile edge.  This would allow an artillery type unit to be guarded by units in the same full sized tile.

Consider flying troops occuping tiles above the ground level.
Constructions on the 1/2 hexes could in addition to walls, be addons to the main structure in the center or independant commons buildings like housing or storage.
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