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Author Topic: Starting a "no mining" challenge  (Read 8567 times)

JoshuaFH

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Starting a "no mining" challenge
« on: November 28, 2008, 04:15:58 pm »

So yeah, i'm gonna build my newest fort above ground only.

Any stone at all will have to be imported, or brought along on embark.

i'm thinking of doing this on a region with a beach and a magma vent, so i'll atleast have plentiful amounts of green glass to build everything with.

Maybe i'll even make it an Evil area and severely limit my use of traps, just to add some flavor.

anyone got any advice for me?
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Magua

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2008, 05:32:49 pm »

You'll really reduce your use of traps, as you won't be able to make mechanisms (traders don't bring stone, they bring stone blocks, which can only be used for constructions).

Other than that, you should have little problems.  Glass is kind of cheap, because sand + magma gives you unlimited blocks anyways.  Get that going and you can easily curtain wall the area, and then do what you want.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2008, 05:45:20 pm »

hmm, i'da swore that the dwarves brought stone too.

with a severe deficiency in mechanisms, the entrance to my fort will need to always be open and guarded, unless i can get real imaginative.

also, i won't export prepared foods at all, just for some challenge and necessitate that i get a trade goods industry up.

does anyone have any suggestions for what i should bring on embark?

also, does the game record the fort as "reclaimable" if i never 'strike the earth'? i heard you can't reclaim if you never dig.
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Spike GT

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2008, 05:52:51 pm »

Dwarves will bring stone, including ore.  Also, you can ask for it in trade agreements.  That's usually how I get bauxite for magma-proof mechanisms.
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userpay

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2008, 06:01:06 pm »

Dwarves will bring stone, including ore.  Also, you can ask for it in trade agreements.  That's usually how I get bauxite for magma-proof mechanisms.
Though different dwarf civs will bring different stones.
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Spike GT

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2008, 06:03:39 pm »

Dwarves will bring stone, including ore.  Also, you can ask for it in trade agreements.  That's usually how I get bauxite for magma-proof mechanisms.
Though different dwarf civs will bring different stones.

True, which is why I can't always have a steady trickle of beautiful rutile.   :-[
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Jisaan

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2008, 06:35:03 pm »

I'm doing something similar, though I'm allowing myself to dig out small amounts of manufactured obsidian, and ice for practice. Also a small chamber for farming, a well, and a sand collection area... And a bit of terracing. Really, I'm doing it more out of perfectionism than as a challenge, since I hate to do anything that can't be undone... I still have a basic idea of the problems associated with the lack of mining though.

Anyway, my advice: First of all, I'm pretty sure that a given 'collect sand' job can only be worked on by a single dwarf, so you'll probably have to make a bunch of glass furnaces with that job on repeat so as to collect enough sand for a serious glass industry. They don't have to be over magma of course, since you're not actually making anything with them.

Of course, you'll need a lot of bags. Leather is good, if you've got a decent leatherworker, since you can get lots of it for a low price from the traders. If you're willing to risk a catsplosion, you can even breed your own supply.

Keep in mind that you need to bring at least one stone with you on embark... You can't make a furnace without it, even if it isn't over magma. Sounds like you were already planning to do that though. Metal bars work too, actually. Also, since you'll probably want to use the magma for defenses and such, you should make sure to get a starting civ that has access to bauxite for mechanisms.

I'd suggest getting a location with lots of trees, or just bring lots of wood with you on embark. Until you get more dwarves, glass blocks will be too scarce to make large constructions. Besides, wood means beds, barrels, steel, and clear glass.

For single story buildings, keep in mind that you can use a bridge as a roof for fewer construction materials. Works well for making a quick storehouse for food, which will rot quickly if you aren't fast enough after embarking.

Since you'll be embarking near magma, be sure to clear it of imps as soon as possible. Might even want to embark with weapons and military dwarves if you're not willing to save-scum after a forest fire. This is kind of obvious I guess, but I did run into some issues when I embarked, so I figured I'd mention it.

Next, I'd suggest you bring more than one dwarf who is proficient in glassmaking... I didn't, and I'm pretty sure it's slowing things up a fair bit. Might even want to bring a gem setter, since you'll have plenty of green glass to put on trade goods, though maybe not. I just use syrup roasts.

Speaking of which, try trading windows. I hear they're worth a lot when you've got a good glassmaker, and it's not like you have any shortage of glass to practice on.

Finally, I'd suggest a wall around whatever you think you might need. Kobolds are a serious annoyance when you don't have a single chokepoint as the entrance to your fort, and goblins might be a problem too, since it takes longer to set up defenses. Just put the trade depot on the outside, and wall yourself in until the traders come. Might even have a second depot inside the wall, and forbid the outer one after opening up a passage for the wagons when they come.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 06:37:16 pm by Jisaan »
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2008, 07:02:12 pm »

i figure that if i'm starting at a magma vent. tactical placement of walls and screwpumps will give me a possible way of throwing magma on them as they come in.

I like your meaty response jiisan. Yes atleast two of my dwarves will be of the military variety so they can take care of the imps.

So you heard that windows were good trade goods? you know where you probably heard that from? me

i thinking of maybe bringin a number of my own animals and breeding them and make a pasture and harvesting meats/bones/skin/fat. not cats, although i will bring one. or i'll capture/tame some once i get my hands on some mechanisms to make cage traps.

besides the obvious glass industry, i'll probably set up a cloth industry with some rope reed or spider silk if the area is evil enough.

hunting will also probably bring in alot of food, though it might be a finite and dangerous source.
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Jisaan

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2008, 08:08:57 pm »

Let's see... Yeah, it was you. I'd put a smiley here, but I'm not sure which would be appropriate.

Anyway, sorry, don't really keep track of who posts what. Good advice regardless, even if it isn't needed. I might try it myself with this fort, just to see how well it works.

As for food, it's actually pretty cheap to buy from the caravans, so I wouldn't worry too much. Above ground crops are probably worth looking into though... Not sure which, never really bothered with them.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 08:12:10 pm by Jisaan »
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Marlowe

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2008, 01:43:47 am »

This is SIMILAR to my challenge, although I do allow soil and obsidian mining, and have the extra "don't make any metal weapons except ammunition" caveat. Your challenge is a lot harder, but you'll have the same issues I had.

What were the issues? There were three big ones.

Firstly, it gets rather boring. No mining and having to channel all building through your glass production means things happen pretty slowly. You'll be bored.

Secondly, you'll have no rough gems for moods. Raw green glass doesn't cut it. Buy off caravans.

Thirdly it's pretty dull. I realise that's the same as the first problem, but it's such a serious problem I thought I'd mention it twice.

You'll be channeling the magma to you anyway, so might as well make a magma moat, although you wont be able to make the bridge retractable until you have mechanisms.

You might also have a problem getting things to trade in the first year as well.
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Warlord255

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2008, 02:05:29 am »

Better challenge:

No constructions other than scaffolding. Mold all your buildings out of magma. S'what I'm doing next.

Quote
For single story buildings, keep in mind that you can use a bridge as a roof for fewer construction materials\

WHY DID I NEVER THINK OF THIS

MIEN GOTT
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 02:07:56 am by Warlord255 »
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Foa

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2008, 02:15:41 am »

This is SIMILAR to my challenge, although I do allow soil and obsidian mining, and have the extra "don't make any metal weapons except ammunition" caveat. Your challenge is a lot harder, but you'll have the same issues I had.

What were the issues? There were three big ones.

Firstly, it gets rather boring. No mining and having to channel all building through your glass production means things happen pretty slowly. You'll be bored.

Secondly, you'll have no rough gems for moods. Raw green glass doesn't cut it. Buy off caravans.

Thirdly it's pretty dull. I realise that's the same as the first problem, but it's such a serious problem I thought I'd mention it twice.

You'll be channeling the magma to you anyway, so might as well make a magma moat, although you wont be able to make the bridge retractable until you have mechanisms.

You might also have a problem getting things to trade in the first year as well.
Make three raw green glasses, to make one crystal glass object ( does this mean 3(Quality)* 10(Quality* Object ) ) .
Then there is the pearlash...
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 04:01:52 am by Foa »
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2008, 05:04:38 pm »

Ok guys, i'm gonna be starting my challenge, but i'm having some site finding woes. i simply cannot find what i want, even though what i want is very little.

I need to gen myself a world that will give me a site that'll

a)have an above ground magma pipe
b)have sand
c)be conspicuously evil

and i'm not sure what to do to give myself this. everything else is optional.

Hmm, i wonder if their can be undead fire imps? that'd be cool.
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TrombonistAndrew

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2008, 05:13:20 pm »

I believe technically you can switch out the magma requirement for a forest, and make sure you bring along a stone block to make your wood furnace.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Starting a "no mining" challenge
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2008, 07:21:36 pm »

yeah, but i don't WANT to replace my precious magma with a forest! i want magma! magma magma magma magga mamma manma manga mangma mgana manna mamga MAGMA!

and evil

and sand.
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