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[nerdpride]

I noticed that some herbal ingredients are supposed to be turned into a kind of "healing salve".  I'm under the impression that it could be given to injured, bleeding, or maimed dwarves to cure them or speed along healing.  A similar item could be used to cure depression or tantrums, I think, which would be especially useful when dealing with large numbers of dwarves and being unable to micromanage.  Elves would be perfect for providing it in significant quantities.  And players could make horrible jokes about mind-influencing substances.

Not that my ideas should delay the next release or anything.  

[Haedrian]

Dwarf cancels task: Is high on gnomeblight

[Goran]

IMO, Dwarven wine should cure tantrum.

[mickel]

quote:Originally posted by Goran:
<STRONG>IMO, Dwarven wine should cure tantrum.</STRONG>

Especially if you chuck a pitcher of it in the head of said dwarf.  

[mickel]

My bad jokes aside, I like it. I have far too many dwarves go melancholy for no reason at all, and they really need some medication to deal with it. Actually I wouldn't mind medication to help them get over their alcohol addiction, but that'd take a bit of the colour out of the game...  

[Goran]

There is no comfort in water and dark mines can be a very cold place... although, my entire population seems to be ecstatic in the current fort...

[Deathworks]

Hi!

I just wish I could have them brew Pepsi (TM); but first we would need that recipe. And the human traders haven't brought that with them.

As for curing tantrums, I don't know. That is really something nasty you are suggesting. I think it is sufficient that enjoying a meal or quaff the dwarf likes gives them a good thought, which boosts their mood so they won't tantrum to begin with. But "curing" their tantrum - that is effectively drugging them into obedience. Okay, the game is called "Slaves to Armok", but I think that would be taking it a bit far.

Melancholic dwarves were mentioned, and if anything, having the possibility to at least keep them alife would be nice - but that is a different issue .

Deathworks

[nerdpride]

Well regular alcohol in our day and age mostly seems to be depressant, even though it causes most people to do some interesting things in public.  In private drinking doesn't help anything, so that wouldn't make sense.  Some prescription medications are actually used to treat depression--this is more along the lines of what I was thinking.

 

quote:Originally posted by Deathworks:
<STRONG>Hi!

I just wish I could have them brew Pepsi (TM); but first we would need that recipe. And the human traders haven't brought that with them.

As for curing tantrums, I don't know. That is really something nasty you are suggesting. I think it is sufficient that enjoying a meal or quaff the dwarf likes gives them a good thought, which boosts their mood so they won't tantrum to begin with. But "curing" their tantrum - that is effectively drugging them into obedience. Okay, the game is called "Slaves to Armok", but I think that would be taking it a bit far.

Melancholic dwarves were mentioned, and if anything, having the possibility to at least keep them alife would be nice - but that is a different issue       .

Deathworks</STRONG>

I'd like to make a perfect fortress where everyone is wonderfully happy and all, but this idea is for "just in-case things go wrong" situations.  Personally, I can't handle the significant numbers of migrants who get crazy moods or have pets that die and such.  Inevitably, the elephants barge in.

It might be blunt, but some dwarves' ambitions need to be sacrificed for the good of the fortress, which already often occurs, and this includes those who are angry at being arrested for recovering from wounds.

Just, please everyone don't try to read into those statements too deeply.  Seriously.

[ August 15, 2007: Message edited by: nerdpride ]

[Deathworks]

Hi!

The current developments in my fortress may actually be interesting for this discussion.

As I mentioned elsewhere, a dwarf drowned in the cave river, in the process destroying some clothes made of masterful cloth our legendary weaver had created (at times, I got a "xxx created a master piece" every five minutes for her (^_^;; ).

In response, the weaver started throwing tantrums. Finally, she injured a carpenter severely and the manager slightly, it seems. This resulted in her getting arrested by the sheriff (I don't have any military dwarves, so the sheriff is on his own). Actually, I was surprised that she got arrested since I remember that somewhere people said legendary dwarves wouldn't get arrested.

Anyhow, she got 44 days in prison, enjoying one of the cells I prepared following suggestions made here in the forums: a 3x3 room, double-engraved, with bronze chains in the center, a bed, a well, and a food stockpile.

Well, it did seem to help since the tantrums grew rarer and rarer. Unfortunately, with only 20 days left, she destroyed the bed (maybe she was annoyed that she never got to sleep in it, because there were constantly other dwarves who used the prison beds as I haven't been able to prepare bed rooms for them yet), earning another 77 days (^_^;;

Now, in early winter she has been released and there seem to be no more problems with her. So, tantrums don't seem to be too much of a problem, actually, if you have good prison cells (while she did seem to use the cell, she didn't touch the food in the stockpile. Maybe prisoners don't eat prepared food?).

Deathworks

[nerdpride]

Ahh, but your carpenter was injured.  If that dwarf had been a ultra-mighty one, then much more damage could've been inflicted, possibly killing another important dwarf, a dwarf's pet, or taking out a bridge full of dwarves wearing valuables made by other master craftsdwarves and thus spreading more tantrums.  Of course it would be very rare, but I would prefer to be able to ignore cancerous situations like this.

If there was just some way of giving one of the dwarves and extra shot of happiness when they need it, then the tragedy could be averted.  Instead of the possibility of  destroying valuable resources, the player could go out of the way to nip the problem at the bud, for a significant price demanded by the traders or a set-up that includes a mill, forge, and a lucky outdoor herbalist.

Dwarves are supposed to be tough creatures anyways--they don't need a zoo and a pond full of fish to reasonably cope with the loss of a cat.  Does toughness even provide resilience to misery?

[BurnedToast]

I think you are missing the point - dwarves are supposed to have tantrums when things make them sad, and they are are supposed to cause havoc when they tantrum, so you have a reason to keep them happy.

Maybe some things should cause less sad thoughts then they do now (such as masterworked clothes destruction) but I think the whole system will be balanced out better eventually.

Making some elven happy tincture to cure tantruming dwarves is silly. Mange them better so they don't get sad, and treat random uncontrollable tantrums (like masterworks falling off bridges) like any other random uncontrollable bad thing - or would you suggest we make Elven monster-spray too to stop ratmen from attacking out of the chasm?

[Marble Dice]

quote:Originally posted by BurnedToast:
<STRONG>...or would you suggest we make Elven monster-spray too to stop ratmen from attacking out of the chasm?</STRONG>

Let's not go over-board here.  Maybe if we just toss them a little cheese every now and then?  I mean the elves are very busy and all.

[PTTG]

I also feel that dwarves are a little too sensitive about their masterworks. I would have to say, perhaps depending on how many masterworks the dwarf has made, how the work was destroyed, and so on should have an effect on the dwarf's tantrum. for instance, in one scenario, a dwarf may have produced a masterful set of doors that guard the entrance to your fort, as a result of a strange mood, and these are his ONLY masterworks. When the goblins siege, however, the smash down the doors. In this case, the dwarf SHOULD tantrum, but unlike how it is now, have them wrathfully attack the GOBLINS! On the other hand, if a dwarf is producing masterful felsite thongs every thirty seconds, then he should, at most, go "meh" when someone drowns in them.

[Haedrian]

If you want an example of how touchy a person can get, imagine what would happen if dwarffort just got itself erased from everyone's hard disk and lost forever...

I'm sure it'll more then compell you to throw things around and scream..

[Deathworks]

Hi!

Believe me, there is often a very strong bond between artists and the art they create. It is often something really personal, really close, something like a child to them.

I have seen artists who made a picture as a special present for a friend's homepage get a real breakdown into tears, a scene that makes me shudder even now, years later about it, because someone redistributed the picture without asking for permission. The emotional toll you can deal to artists via their art can indeed be very hefty.

As for DF, you have many ways to generate happy thoughts, like fine statues and so on.

The only thing that really annoys me is that the border for starting tantrumming and for stopping tantrumming seem to be too close or maybe identical, resulting in ridiculous tantrum-calm-tantrum-calm chains as the dwarf hovers just about that border (since they can do that in their sleep, literally, things can get pretty silly, clogging your messages with meaningless notes). Ideally, let's say if we measured how unhappy a dwarf feels, a dwarf should start tantrumming at, let's say unhappiness 20. Right now, it seems as if calming down occurs whenever unhappiness drops to 19. I think, however, calming down should not occur, until the dwarf is below , let's say 10. This way, a dwarf who calms down really calms down and doesn't simply generate meaningless messages. Note that tantrumming dwarves are not active all the time. They often just stand there, plotting their next mischief, so there is no need to have additional calm periods within a tantrum.

Deathworks