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Author Topic: Metal waterwheel and axels?  (Read 3093 times)

TettyNullus

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Metal waterwheel and axels?
« on: November 25, 2008, 10:18:51 pm »

Not sure if these's been suggested before, search didn't turned up anything obvious. But what about waterwheel and axels made of metal, naturally using twice or thrice as much metal as the wooden version requires? I'm fairly sure that I did read about metal mechanisms being avaliable within next couple updates, and what would be more Dwarven than being able to make the whole thing out of metal and running it on magma?  ;D
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Idiom

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2008, 10:38:43 pm »

The magma does not flow well enough to spin a wheel.

Unless you were using the wheel to push the magma along faster.

Also, the heavier the wheel, the more energy required to get it spinning I believe, so wooden ones are optimal (unless you made an aluminum one?  ;))
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Neonivek

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2008, 10:40:10 pm »

In fact I believe Magma in Dwarf Fortress actually moves faster then real life magma does as well. (3mph on a incline I think... Ill have to check)
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Impaler[WrG]

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2008, 12:56:04 am »

Lava flowing down the flank of a volcano forms a skin of hardened rock around itself leaving an insulated and still red hot interior which can flow as fast as rushing water if the tube is large enough.  Their is no real upper limit on how fast a fluid will flow, its all a matter of viscosity, pressure and pipe diameter.  Any fluid can move at high speed if the pipe it goes through is wide enough, the further from the wall of the pipe the greater the speed relative to the wall because the fluid at the center is moving relative to the fluid around it which is a product of viscosity.  You can see how concentric cylinders are just sliding past each other with speed relative to the wall increasing every time.
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SolarShado

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2008, 01:07:55 am »

I'll second this suggestion. Good point about the magma. I'm sure no natural (in DF) formation has magma flowing, but a little dwarven enginering...
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Milskidasith

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2008, 01:20:12 am »

To Impaler: Doesn't that still leave the outer tube only flowing at a fairly low speed, though? I admit, internally, it can flow very fast, but externally it isn't going to look like much. I think.
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Random832

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2008, 01:28:13 am »

To Impaler: Doesn't that still leave the outer tube only flowing at a fairly low speed, though? I admit, internally, it can flow very fast, but externally it isn't going to look like much. I think.

It won't look like much when you look at the sides on an "established" part of the flow, but what matters is how quickly the front advances.
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Warlord255

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2008, 03:24:00 am »

I do have to agree that water wheels and axles being made of wood for the weight ratios makes sense.

What we REALLY need is different colored woods. Ebony, anyone?
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ogion

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2008, 04:37:34 am »

To Impaler: Doesn't that still leave the outer tube only flowing at a fairly low speed, though? I admit, internally, it can flow very fast, but externally it isn't going to look like much. I think.


Quote
This notably happened during the eruption of Nyiragongo in Zaire (now Democratic Republic of Congo) on 10 January 1977 when the crater wall was breached during the night and the fluid lava lake in it drained out in less than an hour. Flowing down the steep slopes of the volcano at up to 60 miles per hour (100 km/h), the lava swiftly overwhelmed several villages whilst their residents were asleep. As a result of this disaster, the mountain was designated a Decade Volcano in 1991[12].

Full article (Wiki)
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Draco18s

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2008, 05:44:46 am »

Their is no real upper limit on how fast a fluid will flow, its all a matter of viscosity, pressure and pipe diameter.

Reminds me that a physics friend of mine did the math and a liquid touching the sides of the pipe has exactly 0 velocity.
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profit

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2008, 06:01:30 am »

Just a note on weights,  Metal water wheels because of their increased Tensile strength could in fact weigh significantly less than a wooden one.
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Grumman

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2008, 06:53:49 am »

I was going to suggest something similar to the metal axles: the use of chain belts to transmit power between gears.
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LegoLord

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2008, 01:26:19 pm »

To Impaler: Doesn't that still leave the outer tube only flowing at a fairly low speed, though? I admit, internally, it can flow very fast, but externally it isn't going to look like much. I think.
So?  Just because it doesn't look like it's moving quickly doesn't mean it isn't moving quickly.  How on earth would that thin crust restrict a strong flow of liquid?
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TettyNullus

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2008, 10:27:54 pm »

The magma does not flow well enough to spin a wheel.

Unless you were using the wheel to push the magma along faster.

Also, the heavier the wheel, the more energy required to get it spinning I believe, so wooden ones are optimal (unless you made an aluminum one?  ;))

Well... that can be solved by changing how much power the waterwheel drains depending on the weight of the material, ie. gold one drains around half of the produced power while adamantine have next to none draw, similarly could be applied to the axels, and possibly mechanisms in future ( Course, craftmanship skill could affect the draw, maybe grease from fat as one of the suggestions around here said )
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Random832

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Re: Metal waterwheel and axels?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2008, 10:32:57 pm »

The magma does not flow well enough to spin a wheel.

Unless you were using the wheel to push the magma along faster.

Also, the heavier the wheel, the more energy required to get it spinning I believe, so wooden ones are optimal (unless you made an aluminum one?  ;))

Well... that can be solved by changing how much power the waterwheel drains depending on the weight of the material, ie. gold one drains around half of the produced power while adamantine have next to none draw, similarly could be applied to the axels, and possibly mechanisms in future ( Course, craftmanship skill could affect the draw, maybe grease from fat as one of the suggestions around here said )

Why should a metal water wheel use the same volume of material as a wooden one, though? (this is essentially the same as the armor suggestion that I haven't had time to work out the details of)
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