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[Fualkner]

341:
How are the NICE representatives chosen?

The rule would add one into the government, to vote as the current supporter votes. It's essentially a bonus vote, that must be used.

How are points divided?

Say there is two players with 5 points, one with 2, one with 10. A donation of 24 points is made. They each get 8 points, except for the two players with 5, they split their share of 8 into 2 shares of 4 and 4.

[Frelock]

338₂:
I fail to see the point in all this. What does "active" mean? Participating?

Put simply, a player cannot participate in any other phase if they do not make a proposition in phase I.  However, a player is penalized for being "inactive."  Hence, my proposition attempts to amend the situation in which a player accidentally misses the first phase, but comes back before the others are finished.  Players in this situation, in my opinion, should not be penalized (by being given cats).

[rant] I suppose I should state that, on a whole, I don't think that we should force people to play.  There were many days during Battle of the Gods II where I just didn't want to write anything.  My mind was shot, and the Internet was the last place I wanted to be.  But I slugged through it knowing that if I didn't post, I would lose, my race wiped out.  I was stuck between wanting to "win" and wanting to relax.  I always want to avoid that situation, and am a firm believer in the idea that, if you want to take a break from a game, you should be able to do so without penalty.  Otherwise, it becomes work, and we have enough of that already. [/rant]

Of course, this would be somewhat nullified by Tylui's proposition, which implies that only people who proposed something should be allowed to argue for and against the propositions (which I again disagree with; people should be able to express their opinions....).  That would effectively make any comment either illegal or spam, neither of which we want.

338: as is the general consensus, restriction of voting rights is the last thing we need (don't worry, I'm sure this turn will see some failed propositions)

340: I'm still a fan of simplicity, and this seems rather over the top, and it still gives us nothing to do with cat bones/meat (though I do support subsection A).  I am, however, for a way to make cats less troublesome.

341: "Cats are valuable creatures" Wait...What?  Though I'm for people being able to suspend their participation without penalty, rewarding them for it is not what I have in mind.

342: I'm for this, as it gives incentive to help out others.

343: I disagree.  Personally, I think there should be a completely different rule dealing with contracts and the like.  Not to mention, "to follow the demands after the points are accepted" could be applied to ANY demands, not just those made before the points were given.  Also, demands by whom?  According to your wording of the rule, demands by anyone would be applicable.

344: Alright, I'll bite.

345: I disagree with the second subsection.  Like I said before, people should be able to post their opinions whether they posted a proposition or not.

[Fenrir]

[rant] I suppose I should state that, on a whole, I don't think that we should force people to play.  There were many days during Battle of the Gods II where I just didn't want to write anything.  My mind was shot, and the Internet was the last place I wanted to be.  But I slugged through it knowing that if I didn't post, I would lose, my race wiped out.  I was stuck between wanting to "win" and wanting to relax.  I always want to avoid that situation, and am a firm believer in the idea that, if you want to take a break from a game, you should be able to do so without penalty.  Otherwise, it becomes work, and we have enough of that already. [/rant]

I see. I agree with you on this, but I think it would be better to simply propose that the whole "cat" rule be removed.

[qwertyuiopas]

Well, the  whole point of the cats are to make missing a turn even more undesireable, by giving them penalties. Adding all of the extra stuff does NOTHING unless someone wanted to create a way to construct workshops.

The point of it is to scare the inactive players away from messing with forces that they can't understand.

The only other changes are the optional cat sharing and the change to cat meat and cat bones.

[Fenrir]

The point of it is to scare the inactive players away from messing with forces that they can't understand.

The whole point was to be confusing? I don't think penalties should make the game harder to play, but make it harder win.

[qwertyuiopas]

Well... at the time I had planned it just to be a completely useless but logical extension of the cats, to something more dwarf fortressy, but it grew to something a bit to complex...

Still, if you look at it, most of it needs a butcher's workshop, and that will probably never be constructed.

[Fenrir]

You'll need to add rules for constructing buildings before you add rules that involve using them.

[Tylui]

345: I disagree with the second subsection.  Like I said before, people should be able to post their opinions whether they posted a proposition or not.

Actually, my Proposition has nothing to do with limiting peoples' rights to post.  It just states what would make that Player a Participant in that Phase.

But because of Rule 310, they would not become a Participator for that Phase if they did not Participate in Phase I of that Turn.

I think that 310 needs modification next Turn.

Also:  My Proposal was meant to be fully compatible with yours, Frelock, where there is a distinction between being a Participant and being merely Active.

I guess nobody really gets to discuss my opinions since I'll be starting the next Phase, but here are my opinions anyway:

338. "Limitation of Ayes"
I don't think this one is really needed.  There have been some neat Propositions the last couple of Turns; but as you'll see soon, I really have no problems with voting "no" if I don't like a Proposition.

339. "Activation"
I suppose I should have posted my opinions sooner to get this reformed.  It'd be nice if Propositions didn't address other Rules so specifically like this one.

Anyway, I believe this to be a needed Rule, especially if mine is ratified as well.  A Player being "Active" is different from a Player being a "Participant" to a Phase. For instance, you shouldn't have to be a Participant to vote for a Score Keeper or change your Mentor, but these actions are most definitely indicative of Player who is active.  This should have been in the Core Rules, along with my Proposition.

340. "More on cats"
Fweeee...  As others have said, I believe a more robust system should be fleshed out before we do anything else with cats/resources/workshops.  We need a way to declare the things we can have/do a little more...  Modularly.  Like what we did with the sub-games Rule(R321).  But better.

341. "Inactive Intent"
I like the style that this Proposition was presented: good organization, precise terminology, etcetera.  However, I don't think I like the idea of rewarding inactivity.  Already Meta-Slature has suffered from gaps of inactivity due to Yours Truly and I have to say that it didn't bode well.  It would be bad if people purposely were inactive.

Again, it was a very nice first Proposition, Serg.  Nothing personal.

342. "Donation Box"
Again, good organization, and clear execution, but I don't think this is something we really need.

(Off Topic: I think it would be a really great thing to start thinking of ways to restructure the Rules.  I realize it's early on, but better now than later[like the multithreading discussions say. ])

343. "Agreement"
No.  For one, nobody has even used the Charity Points system, and I don't think that forced actions woul dbe beneficial, really.

344. "Elimination of Mutual Mentorship"
This should have been taken care of the first time around.  Kudos for discovering the error.

[Tylui]

Turn 6

Phase 2.5 - Voting

Status

http://www.lanimals.com/Other/metaslature/default.asp

Status Changes This Phase:

Tylui, Participation(R330)
Tylui, +5, First Participant of Phase 2.5(R202)
Fenrir, Participation(R330)
Servant Corps, Participation(R330)
qwertyuiopas, Participation(R330)
Serg, Participation(R330)
Frelock, Participation(R330)
Frelock, -1 BV, Bonus Vote(R314)
Fualkner, Participation(R330)
webadict, Participation(R330)
Tylui, +2, webadict's Mentor(R336)




--Propositions--

338. "Limitation of Ayes"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 A. During the voting phase, a player may only vote in favor of the amount of propositions that turn divided by two, rounded up, plus one. [Rounded up(Propositions That Turn / 2) + 1]
  I. This includes Bonus votes.
   i. If there are bonus votes against a player's proposition, that player may use extra bonus votes at no cost.
  II. A player may not save up votes.
  III. If a player chooses not to vote on a proposition, that player may make one extra vote for every abstained vote divided by two, rounded down.
 B. A player may vote not in favor on as many propositions as wanted.
 C. A player may buy votes.

339. "Activation"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A player may become "active" in a turn even if they do not make a proposition.
 A. A player may become "active" in a turn by simply making a post.
 B. Posts which are deemed "spam" by the judge do not count.
 C. Posting to become "active" does not count as participation.

340. "More on cats"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The cat/kitten system will be updated in the following ways:
 A. Correction of errors:
  I. Kitten bones and kitten meat are replaced by cat bones and cat meat.
 B. The processing of animal meat:
  I. Once a butcher's shop has been constructed, a player with unprocessed cat meat can process 2(two) units of unprocessed cat meat into 1(one) unit of processed cat meat.
  II. 1(one) unit of processed cat meat can be used to convert 1(one) kitten into a tame kitten, that will not be counted as either a cat or a kitten during inactivity.
 C. tame kittens rules:
  I. Tame kittens grow into tame cats if they are fed 2 units of processed meat of any kind in one turn.
  II. if a tame kitten is not fed any meat for 5 turns, it will die, leaving a kitten corpse that can be processed into 5 units of cat bones and 2 units of cat meat.
  III. if a tame cat is not fed any meat for 10 turns, it will die, leaving a cat corpse that can be processed into 15 units of cat bones and 5 units of cat meat.
  IV. tame cats do not count towards inactivity non-benefits.
 D. Cat trading:
  I. If both players agree, one player may give another player a single cat or kitten, either tame or not, with a limit of one given by a single player per turn.
 E. tame cat reproduction:
  I. Tame cats reproduce using the same rules as non tame cats, with the sole exception that tame cat reproduction is completely optional, and can be prevented by the player who owns them.

341. "Inactive Intent"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Cats are valuable creatures, and when they prosper, so do you.
 A. Each cat a player has, grants (1) point at the end of each turn, if the player isn't the player with the most cats.
  I. Kittens are not included in this calculation.

 B. If a player has more cats then any other player in the current turn, each cat is worth an additional (-2) points.
  I. Kittens are not included in this calculation.

 C. Kittens are valued at .125 'cat points,' and if, at the end of a turn a player has, or has more then, 1 whole 'cat point', the player gains an additional kitten(s) based on the formula of ('cat points'/1) for each whole integer of 'cat points.'
  I. Cats are not included in this calculation.
  II. 'Cat points' have no scoring value, and should not be used to score a person.
  III. 'Cat points' are to be reset at the end of each turn.

 D. At a cost of 4 points per cat, a player may choose to devote valuable resources towards exterminating cats. Cats exterminated this way generate no by products, and are stricken from the record. (But not our hearts.)
  I. Kittens are not included in this calculation, they continue on to the next turn.
  II. This is not an action, and as such doesn't make the player active.

342. "Donation Box"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Politicians are affected by who likes them and who doesn't.
 A. A player may donate any number of points to the National Institute of Councilors with Empty pockets (Or NICE).
  I. Points may be donated any time before the voting phase of any round.
  II. Any number of players may donate points.
 B. The player who has donated the most points will acquire the support of NICE. This allows them to ask the NICE representatives to vote on a single proposition.
  I. The vote must be used on the turn it is earned, or it is wasted.
  II. It is otherwise a bonus vote, except where mentioned in this rule.
 C. As the name suggests, NICE will donate all proceeds to politicians that are down on their luck.
  I. The three poorest players (in terms of points) will split the donations into thirds.
  II. In the event of a tie, all players in the tie will split their share of the points evenly.
  III. All points that cannot be split evenly will be kept by NICE until a time when they can be given out evenly.

343. "Agreement"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The clause in E.I in Proposition 324, "Charity Points", is to be modified to be as followed:

The receiving player is obligated by this rule to follow the demands after the points are accepted.

344. "Elimination of Mutual Mentorship"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The following is to be added to rule 336:

D. A player that has chosen a Mentor is becomes the Protégé of his Mentor.
E. A Mentor may not choose his Protégé to be his Mentor.

345. "Participation Definitions"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 A. During Phase I, Participation is defined as posting a Proposition.
 B. During Phase II, Participation is defined as posting an opinion on one or more Propositions.
 C. During Phase 2.5, Participation is defined as casting a vote for one or more Propositions.

Again, the Phase names are going to be wrong, sicne I haven't any way to edit them where I am.  Also, that page will be undergoing some changes so it works a little more dynamically.  It'll update based on actions instead of me manually typing in what it should look like.  Anyway!

webadict, it's funny that you should have chosen me as your mentor, because I was going to choose YOU as mine, since you have the most participation.

[Tylui]

(Hurray for Triple Posting!)

My votes!

338. No
339. Yes
340. No
341. No
342. No
343. No
344. Yes
345. Yes

[Fenrir]

338: No.
339: No.
340: No.
341: No.
342: No.
343: No.
344: Yes.
345: Yes.

[Servant Corps]

338. No
339. Yes
340. No
341. No
342. No
343. Yes
344. Yes
345. Yes
***

Not to mention, "to follow the demands after the points are accepted" could be applied to ANY demands, not just those made before the points were given.

Oh dear. Well, if you look at the full clause though, it does state that you can donate points in return of demands. I do wish there was a way to withdraw proposals...

[qwertyuiopas]

338 No
339 Yes
340 Yes
341 No
342 No
343 Yes
344 Yes
345 Yes

[Cheeetar]

Can somebody propose a law so that I can rejoin when someone wins? I don't want to be out forever .

[Serg]

338: No
339: No
340: No
341: Yes
342: No
343: No
344: Yes
345: Yes