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[Rhenaya]

There should be something like a ladder, it cant be dug out, but build. it works like a stair, except normal animals cant climb it, so only flying and inteligent (non undead, they are dumb!) creatures are able to get up/down on it. and climbing it is much slower than a normal stair or a ramp. dwarfs be able to haul animals and other things up them. a ladder can also be build downwards (like digging) and only out of metal or wood.

basicly i want this for two options:
at first the pet pit for my butcher, but pet inpassable doors dont work well... the creatures all stack on the door and wait till the butcher comes along and then all flee at once. with such an ladder it would be easier to make a pit full of creatures and the dwarfs still be able to access them.
second, my little wooden watchtowers with my markdwarfs in the zombie aligator infested swamp feel just wrong then i build them with a stair ^^

[Tormy]

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=4707.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=5058.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=5163.0

[DJ]

I like the idea, but I don't see why would intelligence have anything to do with ability to climb ladders. A rhesus or a cat should have no problem climbing one. On the flipside, Urist McMaimed shouldn't be able to climb a ladder if he's missing both his arms, no matter how intelligent he is.

[Footkerchief]

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=4707.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=5058.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=5163.0

So what you're saying is that there hasn't been a ladders discussion for 8 months?

Ladders would be great.  I'm assuming that dwarves would just move onto/off them just like they do with stairs.

I don't know about hauling large items or animals while climbing ladders.  Ever tried it in real life?  Perhaps ladders should require at least one stance body part (foot) and one free grasp (although two would be more realistic), which would disallow most animals, and dwarves with their hands full.

Metal and wood are two possible materials, but don't forget rope ladders.  In fact rope ladders might even be the most useful since you can retract them.  That raises the question of how ladders should be constructed interface-wise -- can you build it one tile at a time, or do you set its length during construction like an axle?  Or are they items like chairs or whatever that you construct at a workshop and then "build"?

[Impaler[WrG]]

Good point DJ, I think that could be addressed by requiring an creature to have both a [STANCE] and [GRASP] body part to use a ladder.  That would cover prevent dis-armed (literally) dwarfs from using ladders.  Cats don't have a [GRASP] body part (resulting in all that "cat too injured to haul object" spam) so something new like [NIMBLE] might be needed to show that a create can climb a ladder without the normal restrictions (presumably Nimble means they can also do a few other unusual things like jump up on walls too).

Also rope ladders (made from say 2 ropes of the same type) should also exist.  And I think hauling on ladders should be prohibited (because you need your hands free).

EDIT:  Amazingly similar cross-post with footkerchief

[Tayrin]

at first the pet pit for my butcher, but pet inpassable doors dont work well... the creatures all stack on the door and wait till the butcher comes along and then all flee at once.

I know exactly what you mean by this. I too have quite the problem with hordes of animals rushing through a door the moment it is opened:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Tormy]

So what you're saying is that there hasn't been a ladders discussion for 8 months?

No. It's pointless to suggest the same stuff over and over. That is what I am saying. Use search, and post in the appropriate topic.

[Pilsu]

I'd like it if it made it possible to dug out vertical shafts without an access staircase

[Impaler[WrG]]

That is possible now but its not at all obvious for most people how it can be done, dig a down ramp then have the miner remove the ramp trapping them in a pit, then repeated channel under himself (falling each time with a stun that dose no permanent damage), obviously he must dig into an escapable area or dig himself out again with a stairwell.

[Footkerchief]

EDIT:  Amazingly similar cross-post with footkerchief

Plagiarist!

That is possible now but its not at all obvious for most people how it can be done, dig a down ramp then have the miner remove the ramp trapping them in a pit, then repeated channel under himself (falling each time with a stun that dose no permanent damage), obviously he must dig into an escapable area or dig himself out again with a stairwell.

Or he can sacrifice himself for the aesthetic well-being of the fortress.  You can't have stairwells running up the side of your pits.  I need to keep that technique in mind.

[ogion]

at first the pet pit for my butcher, but pet inpassable doors dont work well... the creatures all stack on the door and wait till the butcher comes along and then all flee at once.

I know exactly what you mean by this. I too have quite the problem with hordes of animals rushing through a door the moment it is opened:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ever tried gating?

Code: [Select]

  x+x
  x x
  x x
  x x
xxx+xxx
x     x
x(pit)x

Works pretty well, especially if you slaughter designate the animals escaping into the coral first.

Personally though, I like to cram 20 puppies into one cage by the kennel, and stuff another cage full of camels by the butcher etc. It's amazing how much those dwarven cages can fit... 

On the ladder note, I'd like to be able to make the grates used as ladder... Buildable like a furniture stair, and easily removable, and linkable to a mechanism. Really, there's not much difference between a floor grate leaning against a wall and a ladder...

[Pilsu]

That is possible now but its not at all obvious for most people how it can be done, dig a down ramp then have the miner remove the ramp trapping them in a pit, then repeated channel under himself (falling each time with a stun that dose no permanent damage), obviously he must dig into an escapable area or dig himself out again with a stairwell.

To my knowledge they don't channel under themselves anymore

Tried it in 40d?

[flabort]

a 6 tile hallway with 6 doors in it all set to pet impassable works pretty well. if an animal can't move into the next door, he won't move into the first door.

works pretty well.

[BradB]

What about ropes being used for climbing? Grappling hooks and lassos anyone?

Grappling hooks would make fun weapons too! You could throw them through someone's head, and then reel them in to take their socks!

Lassos could also be used for caching live animals when chasing them! 


Or rope traps!

Metal cable could also be used for the snare I suppose (as pictured).

They could also act as permanent "ladder" type structures I suppose, with animals not being able to climb them.

Chain/rope restraints at the top of a hole could be used for climbing?

[Foa]

I still want harpoon guns or atleast whaling harpoons for those larger animals ( elephants, wink, wink, especially when you reel in more than one harpoon in the said target, the perfect way to get killed, ripped apart ) .