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[Xime]

I've looked everywhere and have played four games now but I can't seem to ever find the means to produce metal ore that is useful.  I run my smelter with the charcoal from the furnace and I mine out considerable amounts stone and ore but none of this ore can be smelted into iron, copper, or any other metal that can be used at the smithing shop.   Instead I end of with indecisent bars which as far as I can tell, doesn't do squat.

Am I just on wrong maps or is 5 z sections down not far enough to hit the stone that has the copper, iron, or silver ore in it?  I've searched the forum and the wiki but it seems that neither of them narrow down this exact question and leave it to a vague "it's in the ore, stupid."  I also seem to have the same problem with the clothing and leather indusrties.  It just seems like an incredibily long list of ingredients to make some socks.    I must be missing something but at least I know I can get to +70 dwarfs without a clue on how the metal, clothing, or leather industry runs.  Hurrah for wooden swords and crossbow bolts!

[Christes]

The layers you are mining in really matter:

http://idisk.mac.com/fire_drake-Public/DF_StoneOre_Table.htm

This table tells you where to find each type of ore.  Note that if you want iron, sedimentary layers are the way to go.

Also note that all metals can be used for crafts, which are superior to stone in price.

[Xime]

Thanks for the quick reply.  So if I'm understanding that right, I have to go to a new map that is a sedimentry type rock layer?  I think I've been playing with the Igneous Intrusive layer..  that has a bunch of nothing in it which explains why my forge is always blah..  (Traders never have any bars of steel or iron  )


Theres no way to dig deeper and find the stuff then, eh?

[Grek]

Nope. Your fort either has it or doesn't. There's a chance of tetrahedrite which can get you copper and a tiny pit of silver or Native gold. If you have grantine, you can get tin, bismuth and lead. Gabbro will get you some nickel and tiny amounts of platinum and diamonds. If you built if Diorite, though, you have nothing good.

[Xime]

Hrmm... not able to make nickel weapons.. blah.

[Marlowe]

I know how you feel. My first functional fort was on Quartzite, because I didn't know any better.

Unless you're going for a major challenge, go for sedimentary (shows up as white letters on the embark screen) plus trees, or else somewhere with a magma pipe (which will generally be igneous extrusive, well, it'll always be IE but there may be other stone layers elsewhere in the region). sedimentary will have lots of iron, and the igneous should  have some. Getting a region that has both magma and sedimentary AND trees is pretty much the schist. Bonus points if you get flux (limestone, chalk, dolomite, or marble) as well.

 Any fort lacking those things is really going to lack useful military metals. You can melt down captured goblins equipment, but that's really inefficient without magma.

Note that I've found the igneous extrusive rocks appear to have  a different vein generation formula than the others. With most rocks each vein seems to have been generated individually based on occurance within the layer, with IE layers it appears the game generates all the veins at once and then choses an ore for them all (or at least, the vast majority). What this means is that I either find vast amounts of iron and not much else, or vast amounts of copper and not much else, or sometimes nothing but a few aluminium clusters.


BTW, this isn't a smelting question.

[LegacyCWAL]

If your liasons haven't been stabbed to death yet, you can request bars (but not steel) from the human traders, and request damn well near anything, including steel bars and flux, from the dwarf traders.  It's a slow way to build that stuff up, but hey, bars are bars.

Also, you can melt down metal equipment if you're willing to spend the fuel.  Platemail gives almost as much metal as smelting a piece of ore, while chainmail and greaves aren't too terrible, giving about 2/3 of a bar each.

[Marlowe]

Goblins don't wear plate or greaves.

[LegacyCWAL]

...I was sure I had gotten some off goblins

At any rate, even if not off goblins, you can still buy the platemail, chainmail, and greaves off the caravans if you want to melt some down as well.

[Random832]

Goblins don't wear plate or greaves.

Are you sure this isn't determined at worldgen?

[Marlowe]

All I can say is I've never got anything but chain and leggings off goblins, in any world. Even their dead leaders  ave the same stuff, just with quality levels and goblin bone accessories.

This seems so basic I'm surprised it's being questioned.

[Grek]

[ENTITY:EVIL]
   [CREATURE:GOBLIN]
   [trANSLATION:GOBLIN]
   [DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_WHIP]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_WAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MACE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
      [AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
      [AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PIKE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HALBERD]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_LONG]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MAUL]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_GREAT]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCOURGE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_FLAIL]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MORNINGSTAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCIMITAR]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CHAINMAIL:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_LEATHER:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_TUNIC:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_ROBE:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_CAP:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_HOOD:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_MASK:UNCOMMON]
   [GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS:COMMON]
   [GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GLOVES:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_SHOES:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS_LOW:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_SANDAL:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_SOCKS:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_PANTS:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_GREAVES:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LOINCLOTH:COMMON]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_SHIELD]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_BUCKLER]
   [SIEGEAMMO:ITEM_SIEGEAMMO_BALLISTA]
   [TOY:ITEM_TOY_AXE]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_GIANTAXEBLADE]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_ENORMOUSCORKSCREW]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_SPIKEDBALL]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_LARGESERRATEDDISC]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_MENACINGSPIKE]
   [INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_DRUM]
   [CLOTHING]
   [SUBTERRANEAN_CLOTHING]
   [CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
   [CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
   [CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:NAME_BATTLE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:NAME_SIEGE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:ROAD:NAME_ROAD]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:TUNNEL:NAME_TUNNEL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BRIDGE:NAME_BRIDGE]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WALL:NAME_WALL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:EVIL]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:DOMESTIC]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:FLOWERY]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:HOLY]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:PEACE]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:NEGATOR]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:GOOD]
   [STONE_PREF]
   [USE_CAVE_ANIMALS]
   [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS]
   [USE_EVIL_PLANTS]
   [USE_EVIL_WOOD]
   [USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]
   [USE_MISC_PROCESSED_WOOD_PRODUCTS]
   [EQUIPMENT_IMPROVEMENTS]
   [ABUSE_BODIES]
   [SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:WAR:512]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:GOOD:0]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:EVIL:512]
   [FRIENDLY_COLOR:5:0:1]
   [DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:DARK_FORTRESS]
   [liKES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS]
   [CAN_HAVE_MILITARY_SITE_LEADER]
   [START_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_WETLAND:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_DESERT:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_FOREST:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_OCEAN:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_LAKE:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:MOUNTAIN:3]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SAVANNA:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:1]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:2]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:2]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:2]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]
   [BABYSNATCHER]
   [MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
   [START_GROUP_NUMBER:10]
   [MAX_POP_NUMBER:10000]
   [MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
   [RELIGION:ANY_APPROPRIATE_POWER]
   [BEAST_HUNTER]
   [SCOUT]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CARPENTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BOWYER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCUTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ENGRAVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MASON]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_CARETAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_TRAINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FURNACE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WEAPONSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARMORER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BLACKSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:METALCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_CUTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_SETTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:STONECRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LEATHERWORKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WEAVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CLOTHIER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GLASSMAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISHERMAN]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_CLEANER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:COOK]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:DYER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:HERBALIST]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BREWER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LYE_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOOD_BURNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MECHANIC]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_ENGINEER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:PUMP_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TRADER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARCHITECT]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:TUNNEL]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:BRIDGE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
   [ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:LYING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:VANDALISM:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:THEFT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:ASSAULT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]

[Marlowe]

All I can say is I've never got anything but chain and leggings off goblins, in any world. Even their dead leaders  ave the same stuff, just with quality levels and goblin bone accessories.

This seems so basic I'm surprised it's being questioned.

Dwarves have these things in the raws to. It doesn't mean the caravan guards turn up wearing plate. Whether a race has something in their civ entry doesn't mean they'll turn up wearing it. NPC equipment seems pretty standardised.

[Random832]

Dwarves have these things in the raws to. It doesn't mean the caravan guards turn up wearing plate. Whether a race has something in their civ entry doesn't mean they'll turn up wearing it. NPC equipment seems pretty standardised.

I think that it's determined at worldgen, and there may be factors affecting it (value vs wealth) that mean it's almost always a certain way, but that's not the same as it being standardized or hardcoded.

[Marlowe]

Did I use either word?

For practical purposes, you cannot rely on goblins being generated with plate or greaves, because it just doesn't happen very often if at all. I have 41 worlds on my machine. Granted, I haven't done much with a lot of them, but I've stripped a lot of goblin corpses. A lot of these were under 38c, when they didn't send leather-armoured wrestlers as padding but used a full squad of armoured warriors each time. It's always chain, leggings, et cetera. Except on the bowmen and crossbows, who have leather.

 Goblins turn up in chain. Caravan guards wear chain. Migrant soldiers (unless they're wrestlers or marksdwarves) turn up in chain. It's the standard form of armour in DF land. If worldgen makes a difference, I'd be thinking I'd have seen some by now.

EDIT: Sorry, I did use the word "standardised". I also used the word "seems". It doesn't make a lick of difference to him if one goblin in a thousand turns up in plate. He can't depend on that.