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[profit]

Just a realism addition:

If an item created is the lowest quality there should be a chance of a failure.

*this only affects the LOWEST QUALITY LEVEL ONLY, so most craftdwarfs after getting a little skill, this will no longer really affect.

If a failure occurs NO item is crafted.

If it occurs on the forge, The Metal is returned, fuel is not.

If it occurs using carpentry, Sawdust is made, only able to be made into ash or charcoal.

If it occurs using masonary, The rock is destroyed.

If it occurs with the kitchen, The Food is turned into a substandard food item.

A lower chance of it happening but if it occurs while gem cutting, the raw gem  is destroyed or turned into some substandard cut gem *better practice with raw green glass =p

If any craft fails, the task remains and the crafter will probably try it again. So.. if you queue 10 rock coffins, you will still get 10 rock coffins just it may take a little longer until your crafter gains some experience.

I expect this to actually change the game very little as most of the low value items are just fluff anyhow.  Just adds realism and kinda encourages higher skill sets even more.

[Milskidasith]

So you want a starting fortress to lose about 10% of it's food (from memory, probably wrong) bringing a proficient cook, or a whopping 75% of it by bringing no cook at all?

You are truly insane. And not in the dwarven way of "do something crazy and at impossible in at least 5 categories," more in the "never let this guy design games, he's the type who can only think of ways to add fake difficulty" way of insanity.

[Duke 2.0]

 Perhaps failing cooking could result in charcoal?

 ...

 But yes, even botched things should be tracked. Add a burned tag to a failed food item, making it worth less and make a bad thought. Failed crafts are still crafts, just broken.

[profit]

So you want a starting fortress to lose about 10% of it's food (from memory, probably wrong) bringing a proficient cook, or a whopping 75% of it by bringing no cook at all?

You are truly insane. And not in the dwarven way of "do something crazy and at impossible in at least 5 categories," more in the "never let this guy design games, he's the type who can only think of ways to add fake difficulty" way of insanity.

LOL you really have problems with food supply?  That's usually my easiest area... plump helmets grow like crazy...  I have problems with alcohol production sometimes, but a 10x10 farm will supply a metric ton of food if you have a couple farmers on it.  easily enough to handle cooks learning time if you cook it at all ( my dwarfs don't mind raw plump helmets)

I do like charcoal result though from a failed cooking attempt =)

But I think tracking everything is kinda needless except maybe as X dwarf has failed at crafting 497 times.   We don't track pieces of paper we make mistakes on, we throw them out.

[Milskidasith]

Have problems with food supply, not at all. Have problems with the concept of a person who hasn't cooked before being so unable to boil a mushroom that he manages to make it disappear from existence, yes.

[profit]

Have problems with food supply, not at all. Have problems with the concept of a person who hasn't cooked before being so unable to boil a mushroom that he manages to make it disappear from existence, yes.

LOL it results in charcoal now  .. and food crafting failures *and in fact ANY failure rates* could be tweaked.  I already suggested gem cutting be lowered a little.

*Technically a lot of food currently dissapears from existence basically, check out the garbage bin of any restaurant kitchen and you will see they do not serve a significant amount of food they cook.  Admittedly its probably still edible, but for all intents and purposes it no longer exists except as trash.

[Milskidasith]

Yes, well, restraunts and fortresses filled with dwarves so hungry they stop what they are doing to hunt rats probably have different quality standards. 

[Granite26]

I don't hate the idea, I'd just rather stick 1/5, 1/4, 1/3 and 1/2 quality levels (and maybe 75%) below the normal quality...

[Impaler[WrG]]

Though not fundamentally opposed to the idea of failures that destroy/degrade the materials used the suggested 75% rate is WAY too high.  I find granite26's negative quality levels another good idea but whats really important is value-addition.  Currently even the lowest quality crafting will still result in a huge value addition compared to the raw materials.  Poor crafting should be roughly equal or even below raw material value so you REALLY have wasted time and materials when failing at crafting.

[Foa]

I THINK YOU ARE FUCKING INSANE!!!

Not only do we lose 75% of said made booze and food, we lose generally the forests, crafts, rocks, and supplies.

YOU ARE DEMANDING GENOCIDE!
It isn't fun when you lose you 78904t534789th fortress to failures at crafting!

I'd rather have a Fail quality ( or a quality penalty, depending on said person's skill level ) , and lowered chance of failure ( like 60-35% ( Literally ) in the novice skill area ) .

[profit]

I THINK YOU ARE FUCKING INSANE!!!

Not only do we lose 75% of said made booze and food, we lose generally the forests, crafts, rocks, and supplies.

YOU ARE DEMANDING GENOCIDE!
It isn't fun when you lose you 78904t534789th fortress to failures at crafting!

I'd rather have a Fail quality ( or a quality penalty, depending on said person's skill level ) , and lowered chance of failure ( like 60-35% ( Literally ) in the novice skill area ) .

No.. I traded up, I now have a nice GF, not insane....

But still I maintain it would not cause the fortress to fail, as you will note there is no booze failure as there is no visible modifier on booze for quality level. 

And to make up for it, raw lumber per tree cut could be increased, rocks are always plentiful and food does not technically have to be cooked but its chance of failure could also be modified down, because unlike a broken rock toy horse, someone who is hungry will still tend to eat a burnt flapjack.

And as of yet I have never had a fortress fail because I lacked crafts.... Unless you count a lack of traps and goblins coming in and making dwarf shieskabobs.

And ohhh Maybe these could be adjustable by a Difficulty setting.

But I digress...   Although I am open to tuning, I stick by my opinion this will cause very little disruption to a fortress.  Especially if the jobs are not canceled only retried when they fail.

[Foa]

Do you still want to waste our precious resources on a trivial partially burnt roast?

[inaluct]

Okay, while the failure rates OP put out in the start of the thread seem a little high, I support this idea. Instead of total destruction or conversion to charcoal or something, bad features like burnt food or scratched gems would be good.

[profit]

Maybe for food failures should be eliminated but still.. I dare you to try and make a rock cigar box without reading how to do it on the internet and see if you can manage even with modern tools to create one first try with a closeable lid with your first piece of stone...  or anything useful besides a rock hammer head.


Come on I dare ya =)

Now with your failed piece of stone.. try it again.

See if you can mend the stone with a hammer and chisel.

[Qmarx]

From personal experience, although it's fairly difficult to build things to specification on first try, all the pieces that I've messed up could have been used to make functional tools.  Not particularly symmetrical or pretty, but usable. 

It's practically impossible to mess up a hammer such that you destroy the components.  Worst case scenario: the handle needs to get shorten so it'll fit into the hole on the head.

The cigar box you used for you example (depending on how good it needs to be, or what design and tools you have) isn't a big deal.  I could probably knock something together without specifications in about a day (extremely low quality, but hey, you didn't ask for a -cigar box-).  Stone is, admittedly, one of the more annoying materials to work with (metal, acrylic and wood are much better behaved), but I assume that a dwarf would be better at working with stone than a human would.  We're abstracting that they have every tool they need in their workshops, so that wouldn't be an issue.