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[Keizo]

Been a long time since I posted here. I hope someone reads this one; this child forum tends to be overlooked. Please note this is more a suggestion for a modding tool, and not really directed at Toady per se, though he could certainly help!

For the modders: The new bodyparts code seems to me to make modding in unique creatures about ten times more daunting. Now we need to specify more tissue layers, the hardness of those layers, and so on. This ties in to the fact that "game balance" in general in DF is ridiculously hard to achieve.

I'm worried that the new code is going to make things even more strange than they are, when a giant cave spider or something comes along that just happens to have a particularly hard chitin due to a typo disembowels a hero adventurer with a pincher with a particularly hard pincer stiffness, or something.

I have a suggestion for making it all simple. Have each qualitative change to the body makeup of a creature contribute to some kind of simple, quantitative, overall "power level." Maybe there could be some simple stats that tie into this calculation (defense, attack, intelligence, whatever.) So for example, adding chitinous layers with a hardness of X would boost a creature's overall Defense level by a certain amount; same for the pincers/attackable arms, etc. Then at the end of it all, you could put these numbers into the proposed tool and it would tell you the overall stats of what you just made.

And here's the really cool part. If you wanted to make a creature with a specific power level; or specific sub-stats; you could then begin to use the proposed applet to begin filling out the creature's specific bodypart stuff, ticking off points as you go. Or you could let the program figure it all out for you, if it were made well enough.

For most people, modding in creatures is too daunting to even try, even with the older, simpler code. But maybe this is something that will catch someone's eye.

BTW, If I had some general idea of how to rate these things (defense/attack for bodypart/tissue layers) once that code is finished, I'm sure I could whip up a web based java applet in a few hours.

[Granite26]

Been a long time since I posted here. I hope someone reads this one; this child forum tends to be overlooked. Please note this is more a suggestion for a modding tool, and not really directed at Toady per se, though he could certainly help!

(Does a quick check)  Nope, you're wrong.  This is officially the most active forum in terms of active topics

[Keizo]

Sure people post here a lot but you'll also notice it has the highest topic to post ratio. The general discussion board has the lowest topic to post ratio, meaning people actually read the posts and reply to them thoughtfully.

And your post does nothing but prove my point (you didn't respond substantively to the actual post)

Meaning I was right.

Seriously, why do I even bother with this board anymore..

[Random832]

What's the power level of a

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

spirit of fire

?

They have no skin or natural armor of any kind, no bones, sever on break. What it _does_ have is

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

a fixed_temp of 25,000, just a degree shy of melting adamantine

- how do you account for _that_?

[Tormy]

I have a suggestion for making it all simple. Have each qualitative change to the body makeup of a creature contribute to some kind of simple, quantitative, overall "power level." Maybe there could be some simple stats that tie into this calculation (defense, attack, intelligence, whatever.) So for example, adding chitinous layers with a hardness of X would boost a creature's overall Defense level by a certain amount; same for the pincers/attackable arms, etc. Then at the end of it all, you could put these numbers into the proposed tool and it would tell you the overall stats of what you just made.

This sounds like the creature designer part of an RPG maker tool. However I don't know that how could we have anything like that in DF. Designing a creature will be very complicated in DF, and it will be even more complex later on.
Just an example: If the combat abilities of the creatures would be simply based on the attributes, it would be easy to calculate the "power level" of those creatures. However in the next version, creatures can have many body layers for example from various materials, fat, muscles, etc. It would be extremely complicated to figure out a balanced "power level" system.
Balancing a creature in World of Warcraft is much easier then balancing a creature in DF...and as we all know, the Blizzard devs have spent enormous amounts of time on balancing the various mobs and bosses.

[Jay]

But uh, while this all sounds good, this is absolutely the wrong forum.
This is the forum for suggestions for internal stuff.
Toady doesn't have the time to be implementing a creature designer inside DF.
I hardly see the point in this at all, as once you look at how the basic form works, ANY modding in DF is ludicrously simple.
If you're too incompetent to change a few words..
But I digress.
These would absolutely have to be third party, and in that case absolutely would go in the DF Modding subforum.
But yeah, there's a few flaws in your system there.
A fire imp

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

or a spirit of fire

would get a ludicrously low rating, because the only thing it has

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

they have

is fire.

[LegoLord]

One thing:  as soon as I saw the words "power level," I thought, "This is not for DF."