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Author Topic: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF  (Read 2307 times)

AlienChickenPie

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I know DF economy is but a shadow of its projected self, but the problems that often come up have a lot to do with an impoverished underclass that can't afford anything, and that's an issue that would probably be the problem with any dwarven version of pure (except for legendaries) capitalism.
What if this underclass had the ability to rebel (think tantrums, but organized and reversible), destroying property and nobles, and you had the ability to adjust different levels of pay and welfare to keep everyone happy?
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Skynet 2.0

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2008, 01:01:25 pm »

So, your dwarves would then kill the nobles without you having to give any orders? I like this idea ;D.
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Mikademus

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2008, 03:58:34 pm »

First I thought this thread would be yet another one positing a tendentious or over-simplified view of economy, but in stead it is a nice suggestion! It would be fun, especially as it would be quite easy to measure the distribution of wealth among dwarves :)
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If I wanted to recreate the world of one of my favorite stories, I should be able to specify that there is a civilization called Groan, ruled by Earls from a castle called Gormanghast.
You won't have trouble supplying the Countess with cats, or producing the annual idols to be offerred to the castle. Every fortress is a pale reflection of Ghormenghast..

Creamcorn

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2008, 04:10:21 pm »

Would it go something like this?

Urist Mcdwarf steals from Kogan Mcnoble. Kogan Mcnoble finds out, orders hammerer to punish dwarf, dwarf dies. Family, and hobo dorfs friends get unhappy, tantrum, etc, etc.

Which leads to a rebellion. Which causes a schism between classes of dwarfs, and completly changes the structure of the fort to a oligarchy, some rich dorfs helped the rebillion.

Of course there would need to be allot of shit to have happened before that./\
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Granite26

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2008, 04:18:46 pm »

This is an engraving of a dwarf, it is surrounded by dwarves.  The dwarf is more equal than the dwarves.

Tormy

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2008, 04:40:40 pm »

What if this underclass had the ability to rebel (think tantrums, but organized and reversible), destroying property and nobles, and you had the ability to adjust different levels of pay and welfare to keep everyone happy?

The idea is interesting [IIRC it has been suggested before, as usual], but do we really need to have more micromanagement? I am not sure..even tho it sounds fun.
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StrayCat

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2008, 04:44:47 pm »

This is an engraving of a dwarf, it is surrounded by dwarves.  The dwarf is more equal than the dwarves.

I looked around for the commissar, then I laughed.
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LrZeph

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2008, 04:51:48 pm »

Sounds like there may be coup d’états in the fortress next, I Love It!
Would nobles be able to commission bodyguards to defend themselves? That would be so awesome.
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StrayCat

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2008, 10:16:16 pm »

Sounds like there may be coup d’états in the fortress next, I Love It!
Would nobles be able to commission bodyguards to defend themselves? That would be so awesome.


Feature Exists: Fortress Guard, Royal Guard.
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Duke 2.0

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2008, 10:22:00 pm »


 We should be able to define our own governments! I'll call mine the Dukeacrocy. It consists of getting a large room full of opinionated Dwarves and the best drinks in the Dukeacrocy. Each Dwarf takes a turn to do something, weather it is is to propose a new law, mandate, show us something or just give a shout-out to whoever. For every opposition, there will be a drink all around. Around halfway through, we shall have sober scribes record the proceedings. Every ledgible shall be made law.

 Don't get me started on the rules involving the Carp pool.

 But yes, we should be able to customize everything. Of course, this would require breaking away from the parent civ and gaining minuses for that.
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Skynet 2.0

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2008, 10:35:55 pm »

It would be interesting if nobles had access to better foods when the economy kicked in. That way, the nobles would be eating all the masterpiece meals your legendary chef made, while the haulers would have to make do with raw mushrooms and murky pool water.
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Draco18s

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2008, 11:14:52 pm »

Am I the only one who thought "Mother Theresa eating babies"?
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TrombonistAndrew

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2008, 08:09:50 am »

Say, I agree; good idea. It shouldn't depend directly on wealth, but rather on the dwarves' abilities to gather the stuff that makes them happy:

A dwarf which likes platinum but can't afford any may be more prone to steal it.

A dwarf who is dirt poor, and likes trees and butterflies but spends most of their time outdoors chasing said butterflies in the local forest should be perfectly happy.

Presented this way, it looks pretty much like much of these mechanics exist in the game already. It's just a matter of the secondary part of the idea: instead of tantruming dwarves just lashing out randomly, they lash out very specifically.
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Silverionmox

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2008, 08:13:31 am »

Am I the only one who thought "Mother Theresa eating babies"?
She isn't called the ghoul of Calcutta for no reason ;)
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Ascii Kid

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Re: Shades of gray between utter capitalism and utter communism in DF
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2008, 09:32:13 am »

The schism effects that are planned would be interesting mixed with this, as your anarchists slowly calm and each try to establish their own governmental ideals.  Some could even leave to establish colonies while others stayed and hunkered down in opposite sides to the fortress, struggling to take control. 
Next the local truler could send in an army to quell the lessers uprising and try to reestablish the fort they had originally intend to build in the first place. 
Nice idea. =->
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