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[Marlowe]

This is the sort of thing which is easily modded in, but I don't see that it should be a mod. I think it's a part of the game which is a bit out of balance.

 Problem one: Bronze currently has strength 75, compared to 66 for copper and 100 for iron.

This is a problem firstly because bronze is actually STRONGER than iron (though not steel), secondly because it's hard to find the tin. I don't wish to make a big reality-based argument here, the problem is in gameplay. Currently bronze's factor is so low that it's hardly worth the trouble of finding and smelting it when you can just use the raw copper (which is often very plentiful). The difference between 66 and 75 is so small a single difference in quality level largely negates it, in fact completely negates it at low levels. As it currently stands it does not seem worth smelting bronze at all. The increase in performance is not worth the fuel it takes to do the smelting, much less the trouble of trying to get a Granite layer and then poking about in it.

Problem two: The formula for bronze is way off. Currently it's 50/50 tin and copper. This is actually what's known as speculum, a highly reflective alloy once used for telescopes. According to the fairly shallow research I've done, the highest tin percentage in manufactured bronze is believed to be about 23%. Anything over 10% tin is considered a "hard" (weapons grade) bronze. 12% tin seems to be a working average. This aggravates problem one. Not only is bronze rated too low to be useful, but it will be hard to make enough of it given the scarcity of tin.

We can't make a realistic formula for bronze, given that the game only seems to track four bars at once, but 3 copper + 1 tin = 4 bronze seems as close as we would get.

I believe that bronze should be a viable, if somewhat complicated substitute for iron, not a faintly cool but basically inferior metal you get in small quantities off traders.  Giving it a higher factor and changing the reaction would be a pretty easy fix.

[Footkerchief]

I'm not a metallurgist, but "stronger" is a bit vague for comparing the two.  The new material raws (coming up next version) should have much more precise properties for the two metals (insofar as they're specific metals rather than a range of alloys), although other gameplay considerations like corrosion and sharpening are probably farther off.

But yes, there should be more reasons to use bronze over iron if you can get it.

[Marlowe]

I wouldn't care if it was 90, or 100, or 110. But 75 is just too low.

[Zaratustra]

A mod for you.

[Pilsu]

Bronze was previously used to make tools because its melting point is lower than that of iron. The Iron Age began with the development of higher temperature smelting techniques. During the Iron Age, the best tools and weapons were made from steel, an alloy consisting of iron with a carbon content between 0.02% and 1.7% by weight. Steel weapons and tools were nearly the same weight as those of bronze, but stronger. However, steel was difficult to produce with the methods available. Therefore, many Iron Age tools were fashioned of wrought iron.[5] Wrought iron is weaker than bronze, but because it was less expensive, and more easily sharpened, people used it anyway. Iron is by itself an adequately strong metal without additional alloys (although it could be further strengthened by case-hardening or forge welding small amounts of steel to areas subject to wear such as edges). Bronze, on the other hand, requires copper and tin, which are less common than iron. Additionally, iron can be sharpened by grinding whereas bronze must be reforged.

Iron in the game is still pretty generic. Sure, bronze could be bumped up to 100% and the smelting formula changed but those are probably parts of a larger lump of changes to metallurgy and weapons in general

[Footkerchief]

Is bronze's non-grindability related to its non-sparking properties?

[Random832]

Additionally, iron can be sharpened by grinding whereas bronze must be reforged.

I'm not sure I buy this - how is it even possible to directly forge a sharp edge rather than sharpening later on?

[Footkerchief]

Additionally, iron can be sharpened by grinding whereas bronze must be reforged.

I'm not sure I buy this - how is it even possible to directly forge a sharp edge rather than sharpening later on?

Yeah, upon further investigation, it seems like that might be bullshit.

[Random832]

I may have spoke too soon

http://www.bronze-age-craft.com/swords_for_sale.htm (also, lol, "Carp's Tongue Sword")

All bronze age sword edges were hardened and sharpened at the same time, the edges were forged down to a thin, hard wafer. The work is so neat, its not easy to understand how they achieved it.

OTOH, this page lists a "bronze age sharpening stone"; they were certainly sharpening something with it.

[Granite26]

My understanding is that the iron age came about due to a shifting of trade patterns  (it suddenly became a lot harder to import tin).

There's a lot of ways to make this work, bumping up bronze to 110, would work.  A little stronger but also harder to make.  If you have copper, it should be cheaper to import just tin than to get iron alone kind of thing.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I think the issue is more 'will the ground bronze object hold a sharp edge then a reforged bronze object' if reforging the object will result in a better edge then grinding thats what you'll do.  I think Iron just has the property of producing an equally good edge after grinding and its more labor intensive to reforge so the most effective thing to do is always grind Iron ware as bronze is always reforged.

In my own moded metals raw I give Copper 70% damage, Iron 90%, Bronze 100% and Steel 140%.  I think I will also do as you suggest with making bronze 3/4 copper 1/4 tin as I'm still finding it hard to make Bronze, you almost always need to import the tin because of its rarity vs ubiquitous copper.  I'm going to keep the old 1:1 bronze but call it 'White Bronze', its used as a reagent in a number of other alloys I've made and it might be weaponized too.

[Granite26]

drools about the long-term profitability of a tin mine in a post-caravan arc world.

[Neonivek]

Also Bronze's use in weaponry is not of equal value to its use of armor.

I cannot remember which it was.

So Bronze shouldn't retain a 75, 75 combat and armor value

[Impaler[WrG]]

Obviously the damage modifier should be incorporated into the metal usage tags rather then being a blanket value, [ARMOR:50] and [WEAPON:75] and [AMMO:100] are very obvious improvements to the raws.  I'd even split WEAPON into the three damage types cut/pierce/bludgeon so you can make metals better for certain weapons rather then others.

[Neonivek]

Obviously the damage modifier should be incorporated into the metal usage tags rather then being a blanket value, [ARMOR:50] and [WEAPON:75] and [AMMO:100] are very obvious improvements to the raws.  I'd even split WEAPON into the three damage types cut/pierce/bludgeon so you can make metals better for certain weapons rather then others.

You mean like how Lead is used in Maces but would otherwise be considered a terrible choice of material for anything else?

Or how Wood and bone make excellent peircing weapons but don't do so well slashing or bludgeoning wise?