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[Boksi]

So what do you think about this:

A: Hammer and Anvil: Downwards strike with a hammer, dealing extra damage if the enemy is on the ground.

A^: Axe Slash: The dwarf slashes upwards with a random axe. It might be an iron axe, or a steel axe, or (rarely) an artifact obsidian axe, menacing with spikes of obsidian and moss agate.

A>/A<: Wrestle: The dwarf grabs an enemy and injures them. This move can gouge out eyes, twist limbs or just pinch them badly.

Av: Strike the Earth: The dwarf swings a pickaxe downwards. If it hits the ground it launches a chunk of rock or ore at an opponent. If it actually hits an opponent it deals quite a bit of damage. Whenever the pick strikes something, it sticks for a short period, during which the dwarf can move. This can be used to, for example, climb walls or narrowly avoid falling.

S: Immovable Stance: Dwarf appears to be in idle stance, but his weight is set to 6 making him unstunnable and immune to all knockback. If used in the air, it gives the dwarf a chunk of downward momentum as well.

S^: Fishing Rod: The dwarf throws out a fishing line, which can grab enemies and pull them closer, or a ledge, pulling the dwarf to it.

S>/S<: Crossbow volley: The dwarf fires a volley of ten bolts, each with very low damage and knockback.

Sv: Random Item: The dwarf procures a random item and throws it at an enemy. The list of possibilities includes:

Cat(slows down enemy)
Barrel of booze(low damage, high knockback and it explodes if it touches fire)
Carp(bites opponent)
Rock(a small one that is, which flies fast and stuns)
Plump Helmet(heals)
Pants(no damage or knockback, but summons horde of dwarves)

[Neonivek]

Personally I think the Barrel of Booze should be replaced by the Cat... The CAT should explode

The Wrestle shouldn't be needed if characters actually have seperate grabs as a move

Immovable stance: Remove it... If I don't know the reference, then it isn't strong enough

Axe: The Axe if it is used should remember that it is for Lumberjacking as otherwise players rarely if ever use axes otherwise. So Slashing upwards makes absolutely no sense

The Fishing rod: Remove it, Dwarves catch fish with their hands!

Plump Helmet: It cannot heal, we already know that self-healing items are kind unbalancing or just useless.

Random Items: We need to take advantage of the fact that currently in dwarf fortress, thrown items hurt a lot no matter how little sense it makes!

Crossbow: Crossbows are a overpowered in game as well as being rapid fire... I think the fact that they can strike opponents multiple times with one shot should be used more.

Hammer and Anvil OR Strike the Earth... They are too similar presented like this...

On a side note: Your normal and special attacks are both special...

Maybe we should make a list of the most interesting parts of Dwarf Fortress and turn that into our Dwarf Character. (Dang it, too bad we can't have two)

[Boksi]

We have to make some slight compromises here.

Cats don't actually explode, for example. They slow down FPS, essentially slowing you down. Barrels of booze won't explode unless they hit fire, otherwise they'll just be normal projectiles.

There are throws but they're for throwing items. Wrestling would be incredibly close range, low damage but inflict some malus upon the opponent.

As for axes, everybody knows they are very dwarven weapons. Many a fortress has a squad of axedwarves in it's military.

Fishing rod: Maybe they don't actually wield fishing rods, but it's a very useful attack nevertheless, because it pulls enemies into range.

Plump Helmet: Remember, it's thrown to the enemy. There are precedents in the game(Ib, that is), for food to heal anyway.

Random items: Game balance. Can't have flying pants dealing lots of damage and summoning a horde of dwarves at the same time, now can we?

Crossbow: So you want to make it a single shot, powerful attack? The dwarf is a melee attacker and the crossbow is a deterrent against ranged attacks.

Hammer and Anvil/Strike the Earth: Strike the Earth would have a few warm-up frames,launch a projectile and latch onto wall and ledges. Hammer and Anvil just bashes something with a hammer, much quicker than Strike the Earth.

[Neonivek]

No no no... Cats actually explode!!!

Cats: They Reproduce so much they basically explode... So it would be represented as a cat... who explodes shooting kittens everywhere!!! Harming or slowing down the enemy. (The Cat ACTUALLY needs to do this Catsplosion!)

Wrestling: So there are no Throws in this? I am a bit surprised... Well if there are no throws then I have no problem with Wrestling and it really should be part of the dwarf abilities.

Axes: The point is that we want to cut the fat and only include things that are undenyably dwarven. If you REALLY want to use Axes then instead of different qualities of Axes make it different weapons (Sword, Mace, Hammer, Axe, and Corkscrew)

Fishing Rod: This counts too as not being strong enough... We could find better was to achieve this effect.

Random Items: I don't mean Tons of damage... I mean the objects a dwarf throws should be deceptively powerful... Tossing Sand that actually makes an impact... Coins have an effect you would normally associate with boulders (If hurling a boulder was an attack). Basically the dwarf should as a whole throw useless objects and somehow achieve the effect of what you would consider to be a useful object.
-To make it easier to understand... A Dwarf should throw things like Knives, Boulders, Bolas... but instead represent those items as Coins, Sand, and socks.

Hammer and Strike: I realise they are different... but we should make it a bit more varied from eachother... On a side note: The Hammer should shoot sparks short range!

Crossbow: If you cannot represent its ability to strike enemies multiple times with one shot then it shouldn't be used. But I guess it COULD be a multishot that strikes multiple times... basically making it a lockdown sprey. So Rapid Fire multi-strike yay!

Basically if anything doesn't SCREAM "Dwarf Fortress" then just set it aside. If nothing else can be found then you can put it back.

[Boksi]

I suppose you could have the cat explode into a bunch of cats that hang on to an enemy, which has been suggested before.

The axe point is good, although a corkscrew wouldn't fit in with the rest. It can't pierce anything unless it also spins, you see. Perhaps it could go Sword/Mace/Hammer/Axe/Spear? The spear could certainly pierce the enemy.

Making the hammer shoot sparks would make them even more homogenous, and anyway it's the normal attack so it shouldn't be that powerful.

Finally, I get the impression you agree with my version of the crossbow?

If nobody else complains, I'll update the movelist and post it.



EDIT: And the fishing rod is quite powerful but only in conjunction with other moves, or when you're falling off stage.

EDIT2: And I'll make sure to include miscellaneous small thrown items instead of merely "rock".

[Neonivek]

Yikes I better explain myself better

Fishing rod: What I mean by "Not Strong enough" I mean... It isn't Dwarvenly enough... Why not have him toss Purring Maggots (Or squeezing them!)... hmmm... Of course there is the idea of scrapping the attack as a whole and making an entirely new one... For example a Bridge or some sort of building action.

Normal attacks are powerful... Special attacks are meant to achieve different effects...

As for the Crossbow I don't think you know what I mean so just in case

The Crossbow shoots lets say 6 bolts in a volly... Each of those bolts hit the enemy three times... making it a total of 18 hits. (Just an example...)

[Boksi]

What's the difference between a bolt that hits three times for 5 damage and a bolt that hits once for 15 damage?

Also, while I agree we could scrap the Fishing Rod, what would take it's place? Maybe we could map Random Item to S^ and make a move that creates a trap for the Sv?

[Khosan]

Yea, we're going to have to let some of the DF Dwarf qualities slide in the making of the IB Dwarf.  Kind of a shame, but if we gave them everything, they'd be like unto tiny ASCII Gods.

Anyway, I'll toss in a couple more ideas.
Jab Combo (Neutral A x 3): Wrestle.  Simple three-hit combo.  Two 'punches' and a headbutt.  The punches are low damage and knock the victim towards the Dwarf and up in the air a little bit.  Headbutt knocks them forward along the ground and does moderate damage.

Forward-A: Axe Slash.  Not much to say about it.  We're not gonna get rid of axes (unless we swap them for hammers), I'd just put them as the side-A instead of up-A.

Up-A: Crotch-Biter.  Dwarf tilts his head back, opens his mouth and bites down.  Lest we forget the brutal bitings by the Hammerer.  Blasts the target straight up.

Neutral-S: Tantrum.  Little charge time, Dwarf turns red, then starts running around really fast and becomes very slidey.  If he runs into someone, they get hit hard; large knockback, moderate to high damage.  So sort of like a Red Shell from SSBM, except the Dwarf is at least partly in control of it by being able to jump and change direction (though not quickly).

We still need aerial attacks of some kind.  My gut says that they should be really weak and clumsy, since, well, Dwarf.

Oh, and as for the fishing pole thing, we could have it be a mining pick on a string instead.  Dwarf throws the pick, which catches people/ledges and pulls him towards it.

[Boksi]

I like the mining pick on a string idea, and agree that we must involve biting as well. Remember though, dwarves don't have a headbutt attack.

Hmmm. This is what I currently have:

A: Hammer and Anvil: Strikes downwards with a hammer. A quick attack that does more damage if the opponent is standing on solid ground.

A^: Upwards Strike: Strikes upwards with a random weapon. The list, from worst to best, is as follows: bare fists, sword, mace, hammer, axe, spear.

A>: Wrestle: A very close range attack that is one of the following:
Bite
Punch
Twist Joint
Eye gouge

Av: Strike the Earth: A few warm-up frames, then strikes downwards with a pickaxe. If the dwarf is standing on the ground and the pickaxe hits the ground as well, it launches a chunk of rock towards an opponent. The exact damage, knockback, projectile speed and range of it varies with different rock types. If the dwarf is in the air it merely sticks in the ground or wall until the dwarf moves.

S: Immovable Stance: The dwarf appears to be in it's idle animation, but it's weight is set to 6, making him invulnerable to knockback and stunning.He still takes damage as normal, but can easily counter melee attacks. He remains in his stance until he moves.

S^: Fishing Rod/Pickaxe-on-a-rope?: Launches a fishing line/pickaxe on a rope, which can hit opponents and pull them towards him, or ledges/walls and pull him towards them. The distance an enemy is pulled depends on their weight.

S>: Crossbow Volley: The dwarf pulls out a crossbow and fires a volley of bolts, each with low damage and low knockback. It can adjust it's aim while firing, but not move.

Sv: Random Item: The dwarf procures a random item, and automatically throws it. Possible items are:

Cat(slows down enemy)
Barrel of booze(low damage, high knockback and it explodes if it touches fire)
Carp(bites opponent)
Plump Helmet(heals)
Pants(no damage or knockback, but summons horde of dwarves)
Various small objects, such as rocks, mugs, earrings, coins or even sand(all deal the same amount of damage and very little knockback, being only graphically different)



Personally I like the immovable stance. It represent the [DAMBLOCK:1] and [STOUT] tags of the dwarves, things so basic we don't even acknowledge them.

[Granite26]

I like the cat... maybe have the cat walk back and forth in place, jump up and cling to anything that gets close (slowdown effect, and will hit the dwarf) and breed if left alone for too long.

I really like the 'throw a random thing' effect, it's a good cheap way to hit a lot of memes at once.  Possibly a charged throw or directional throw.  (Diagonal up is an elephant that will do a ballistic arc and then charge?) Coins in here as well.  Coins could be low damage, high stun items.

The problem is, the powerful DF stuff is all ranged attacks, but a dwarf really should be a close in fighter...

Also, Fae Moods:  Smash Brothers has items, right?  Randomly the dwarf goes fae, you have to find the right item on the screen (also random) and pick it up.  He then goes into Voltron invincibility mode and encrusts the item with spikes (making it twice as powerful, but the spikes on the item are bad graphics > and < drawn over the sprite when he holds it aloft).  Failure to meet the mood is bad, possibly causing death, or enragement (player loses control, dwarf throws random crap for good damage in random cardinal directions, can't move even if thrown off).  Actually, enragement might be a good final state change thing... (get 190%?  Do this as a last hurrah)


Also...  Items... I seem to remember the items are just stuff from the various games.  I'm not sure what the other games are, but perhaps DF cages could fill the role of pokeballs in the original.  (small item contains multiple huge creatures?  Check)  That could get the elephants and carps and unicorns into the map.

Lava flows...  (Dwarf sketches on paper, holds it up, stream of lava pours in from the top of the screen.)  Good damage, Excellent range (vertical line), but extremely slow.

The only other meme I can think of is the super crossbows.  They have two traits that should be captured.  Fully automatic fire and extremely random (high) damage.  This could possibly be worked like Joe's machinegun (from Bionic Commando).  A short(ish) range burst that sprays up and down.  Run the damage like the needler.  (Stuck-ins, Check) You'll almost certainly be slapped for doing this (since it's close range only) but a full burst could do 50% without shame.  (Alternatively, it's easy to block in the middle of it, or snap a quick blow to pull the dwarf out of it).  There are some good fire attacks to draw the feel from for this.

Edit:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no fishing rods in DF, right?

[Roundabout Lout]

I'm loving these ideas! The dwarf can be a character who relies on chance, much like DF itself. Either have huge advantages, like the encrust standard item with spikes, or crippling failures, like failure to create artifact, and kill self. Those events could be hilarious.
Maybe 75% chance of success? This can be tweaked, don't quote me on that yet.
Oh, and they should have a link to this thread, to see this all for themselves, maybe read some of the forum for inspiration. Even drum up more players. More players means more donations for Toady. Capiche?

[A_Fey_Dwarf]

As for the fabled 'rush outside to get silk sock during siege' meme ...  Maybe the dwarf could use the sock as a grapple attack. The animation could be the dwarf dropping a sock in front of him and enemies within a certain range would be drawn (sucked in?) to it. Then the dwarf can grab the sock thief by the neck which also ties in to the DF idea of strangling being the only efficient way to kill an enemy with wrestling.

[Haven]

Bwuh..?

I had this entire idea about a week ago... I was thinking about a Boatmurdered stage, with periodic lava floods, smoke, miasma, and elephants... And for the representatives, an Elf, a Urist with the stereotypical movesets (Sock Rush Special Attack!), and Captain Ironblood. Which led to the creation of a teir system to handle massive power imbalances...

Of course, the biggest difference is that these guys actually DID something...

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

Bwuh..?

I had this entire idea about a week ago... I was thinking about a Boatmurdered stage, with periodic lava floods, smoke, miasma, and elephants... And for the representatives, an Elf, a Urist with the stereotypical movesets (Sock Rush Special Attack!), and Captain Ironblood. Which led to the creation of a teir system to handle massive power imbalances...

Of course, the biggest difference is that these guys actually DID something...

GREAT.INDIE.FREE-MINDED.HATE-EA.LOVE-DF.HAIL TOADY ONE minds think alike!

[Philosophical Gamer]

The drawbridge flip could be useful, summon a drawbridge and send your opponents flying.  Or rhesus macaques could run around stealing opponents weapons or bringing powerups to the dwarf.

These might not be the best suggestions, couldn't get any sleep last night for whatever reason.

Man, there's a whole new thing happening in gaming right now, everywhere there's just so much innovation happening.  Power to the people, baby.