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[Random832]

I had a thought. In Left 4 Dead, when there is an item off-screen or hidden behind something, it shows an icon indicating it's there in black and white with (if needed) an arrow pointing towards it.

[Reasonableman]

I vaguely recall Empire Earth had a system that lit up any occluded (I think that's a word) unit in bright blue. Then there's the (The?) Sims approach, wherein you can either lower the walls at your current level completely to the ground, or just mouse over any portion you'd like to see behind.

[Align]

Hmm, 2D Zelda's were straight top-down like that. Could work... In fact been proven to work. Huh.

Didn't those just use prebaked faux-perspective though?  Or do you mean the 3/4 topdown stuff in outdoor areas?

Dunno. Just know it looks like Zelda. Or like some of the Zeldas anyway:
http://www.gamethink.net/IMG/jpg/snes_zelda_a_link_to_the_past_secret_passage.jpg

[Random832]

Hmm, 2D Zelda's were straight top-down like that. Could work... In fact been proven to work. Huh.

Didn't those just use prebaked faux-perspective though?  Or do you mean the 3/4 topdown stuff in outdoor areas?

Dunno. Just know it looks like Zelda. Or like some of the Zeldas anyway:
http://www.gamethink.net/IMG/jpg/snes_zelda_a_link_to_the_past_secret_passage.jpg

Right - that was the "games from the 80s" that Mikademus was referring to - the confusion with what you said is due to the fact that "straight top-down" is not in fact a proper way to describe it.

[Footkerchief]

http://www.gamethink.net/IMG/jpg/snes_zelda_a_link_to_the_past_secret_passage.jpg

Ah.  Yeah, in a game like Zelda, you can design the levels to work well with the perspective -- in this case, single flat rooms.  Basically the implicit viewing point is always over the center of the room.  In DF, the challenge is to make the perspective work for whatever crazy structures the player can build.

[Align]

Can't really think of an example where it doesn't work. Assuming we still switch view-level up and down freely, at least.

[Footkerchief]

The red lines are perspective lines.  In true perspective, they would all converge at a single point.  Because this technique fudges the perspective, the convergence isn't perfect, but all the intersections are more or less in the center of the picture.  However, the point here is that the level designers had to manually choose wall tiles depending on their position in the scene just to get this pseudo-perspective.  Note corners 1, 2, and 3 -- that corner tile only works because those tiles are always in the top right.

Trying to use the same technique in DF will result in scenes like this:



And if you actually LIKE that, you can achieve it with tilesets anyway, so I don't even know why we're talking about this.

[Mikademus]

Most art in world history is done without or in naive (as it is called) perspective. Thus, the overwhelming majority of all humans who have ever lived would have no problem with f.i the Zelda screenshot, probably either because our cognitive apparatus is constructive, creative and integrative rather than merely representative, or because we're focusing on details and can resolve ambiguities when moving between them. Also, children (and anyone, really) need to be taught perspective, it's not an automatic thing.

Footie, I don't understand your tileset argument; the first version of the gfx set discussed here was in fact also representable as normal axis-aligned tiles and still we discussed it.

[Footkerchief]

Footie, I don't understand your tileset argument; the first version of the gfx set discussed here was in fact also representable as normal axis-aligned tiles and still we discussed it.

I guess I missed the point of this thread.  I thought it was suggestions for new types of graphics support, not just brainstorming for modified tilesets.

e: sorry about the thread, I wasn't trying to come in here and wreck shit I swear

[Granite26]

Nah, I think Foot is right about the changing perspective on screens designed to fit on one full screen.  I'm not sure it's insurmountable, but the issue is there.

[Mike Mayday]

What? The thread is fine, this is legitimate discussion
Mika: the difference between this and the first projection discussed is that in the latter, parallel lines STAY parallel. In Zelda, they just go completely piking nuts.

(And, uh, neither are currently possible).

[Footkerchief]

(And, uh, neither are currently possible).

Oh yeah, I guess there still isn't a way to differentiate a top wall from a bottom wall.  Whoops.

[Mike Mayday]

Playing around. Look how many tiles can be visible at once!
http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/rotcav5.gif
Also, apart from saturation decrease, the lower levels could also receive some blur treatment. I mean it's OpenGL, right?

[Foa]

Nice, I'd like to have sifting orientation now, preferably with mouse/keyboard control.

Ah, above view, and orbital view, and zoom out/in.

[Align]

Trying to use the same technique in DF will result in scenes like this:

Whut? What kind of DF construction would cause that?