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[Deus ex Machina]

Toady chose to give Dwarf Fortress priority over a lot of other things in his life and he works on it full-time. It's not easy to give any project that level of dedication. Until you have put the hundreds if not thousands of required hours and sweat into developing a complicated game with procedural generation for yourself you will not understand what is involved. You don't just build games overnight, most people would find it almost impossible to summon up sufficient motivation to even be able to code a title screen let alone a game. Don't make the mistake of thinking that anyone will pander to your schedule and have as much done by what time you decide it should be done by. If you want to have that luxery then you need to start programming a game yourself.

Dude has had 15 years.

Fifteen.

He charges $55 for the game.

Toady has had half that time.

He doesn't charge anything for Dwarf Fortress.

Don't defend the guy, seriously.

[thvaz]

Man, what? Arrogant DF fanatic, I guess? There's no need to be a jerk.

How I am a jerk? It's because I think DF is better than UrW? This is natural, as we are on Bay12 forum, you should expect this.

For the last time, nothing wrong with being a survival niche game. It is a great game. I play it a lot. I bought it. But DF in the future will be a survival game as complex as UrW and much, much more. IMO, this makes DF better and greater.

Can't you UrW fans respect my opinion?

[The13thRonin]

To the people claiming Dwarf Fortress is 'better' than UnReal World...

Is your toaster better than your alarm clock radio? You can't compare two things that are completely different.

If you LIKE Dwarf Fortress better then that's fine... To be frank, so do I... But that doesn't give you the green-light to slag off UnReal World purely on the basis that it's NOT Dwarf Fortress. It's not trying to be Dwarf Fortress.

No-one is forcing the game down your throats, if you don't like it then just go talk about other games you LIKE. Why would you waste your time complaining about a game you DON'T LIKE when you could be using that time for something more constructive ?

The guy is allowed to develop the game as frequently or infrequently as he likes and to charge what he likes... It is his intellectual property... You have no entitlement to anything...

[DJ]

DF sucks, it doesn't even have coop

[laclongquan]

Now, DJ, that's when we say "Obvious troll is obvious".

Anyway, since I am not hardcore enough to play ASCII-graphic games, just barely enough to tolerate the graphics of URW, I must say Unreal World got good gameplay.

As long as DF doesnt have better than ASCII, I can say any effort to convince me that DF being superior to*any* game is, ultimately, a worthless endeavour. DF is just on another different level of game.

[Deus ex Machina]

The guy is allowed to develop the game as frequently or infrequently as he likes and to charge what he likes... It is his intellectual property... You have no entitlement to anything...

Why do people think this is a valid defence?

If he charges (hell, if he puts it out into the public domain) he can get criticised as much as people care to. That's how the world works.

[mendonca]

And likewise people who see these criticisms are perfectly entitled to come up with our own opinion on the person voicing that criticism.

If the13thronin think that is a valid defence, then ... well ... I suppose he thinks that is a valid defence?

It's all about opinions, man, which seems to be the fundamental basis of your argument anyway?

For what it's worth, I believe Sami is entitled to do what the hell he wants. He's probably not naive enough to not expect any criticism but does he deserve any? Not in my opinion.

[Trorbes]

Toady chose to give Dwarf Fortress priority over a lot of other things in his life and he works on it full-time. It's not easy to give any project that level of dedication. Until you have put the hundreds if not thousands of required hours and sweat into developing a complicated game with procedural generation for yourself you will not understand what is involved. You don't just build games overnight, most people would find it almost impossible to summon up sufficient motivation to even be able to code a title screen let alone a game. Don't make the mistake of thinking that anyone will pander to your schedule and have as much done by what time you decide it should be done by. If you want to have that luxery then you need to start programming a game yourself.

Dude has had 15 years.

Fifteen.

He charges $55 for the game.

Toady has had half that time.

He doesn't charge anything for Dwarf Fortress.

Don't defend the guy, seriously.

And in those 15 years, UnReal World has been finished.  In fact, judging by the fact it's at 3.1, it was probably finished a long time ago.  Dwarf Fortress, on the other hand, is going to need about 15 more years at the rate Toady's going just to reach version 1.0.  So say what you will, Sami can at least put out a finished game.  Now can we please leave this "whose game is better" shit to /v/ and enjoy the games?

[Deus ex Machina]

And in those 15 years, UnReal World has been finished.  In fact, judging by the fact it's at 3.1, it was probably finished a long time ago.  Dwarf Fortress, on the other hand, is going to need about 15 more years at the rate Toady's going just to reach version 1.0.  So say what you will, Sami can at least put out a finished game.  Now can we please leave this "whose game is better" shit to /v/ and enjoy the games?

It's still half the game it should be.

Dwarf Fortress is, in contrast, two entire games at least.

You're not really making any points here.

[Sergius]

Dwarf Fortress is twice the game it should be.

UnRealWorld is half the game it could have been.

And I am three point two times the player I could have been if I had been less than 1 third the player I would have wished I had been had I been a player that wished to be nine times the player I was.

[PMantix]

It's still half the game it should be.

Dwarf Fortress is, in contrast, two entire games at least.

DF is certainly more ambitious in scope... and there may be a day when DF makes games like URW "obsolete"..  but what URW does, it does better than DF and we can play it today.

That might not always be true, but for now that is my opinion. Nothing wrong with appreciating a good game for what it is.

He charges $55 for the game.

That's a little unfair. You can get your hands on a fully working version for as little as $3..  which is a quite deal, imo.

Considering a corporate game will go for ~$60 and get support for <3 years, I think even $55 for a lifetime of updates is perfectly reasonable.

[laclongquan]

Of course, go by 3$ a shot will get you more than your worth over the lifetime of that game. I say that 55$ price tag is a gesture of support toward an indie devloper than a full price for a game.

[forsaken1111]

And I'm sure quite a few people have donated more than $55 to toady, so the point is moot.

[sonerohi]

Just going to put this on out there. Fuck off. This thread is titled "Unreal Word", and is for the purpose of people who play it to talk about the game amongst ourselves. It is not titled "Unreal World vs. DF! Five rounds in the cage". Take the argument elsewhere, or drop it, but don't continue it here.

[forsaken1111]

Just going to put this on out there. Fuck off. This thread is titled "Unreal Word", and is for the purpose of people who play it to talk about the game amongst ourselves. It is not titled "Unreal World vs. DF! Five rounds in the cage". Take the argument elsewhere, or drop it, but don't continue it here.

Very mature, thanks.