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[Warlord255]

After a certain point with good growers, you can cook the infinite seeds they produce ad infinitum for an endless food supply. Takes even more challenge out of cooking.

Possible solutions:

1. When cooking seeds, they must be cooked 5 (or more) at a time to count as 1 ingredient, and only count as 1 ingredient; this makes it harder to cook them and depletes your stock of them much quicker from doing so.

2. Seeds are generated upon harvest, not upon processing/cooking/brewing of their contingent plants; this prevents their exponential spread, especially if the maximum seeds produced this way is 2, keeping the multiplication of seeds much lower, and controllable.

3. Seeds edible raw, but in mass quantity (a whole bag) to deplete them faster.

[Milskidasith]

I'm not sure why seeds on harvest is any better than seeds on eating/brewing. I admit, it makes more sense (I suppose), but wouldn't rotten plants leave you with less seeds than if they were gained on harvest (ignoring the "two seeds" limit).

Also, eating seeds is a BAD, BAD idea. It could murder early fortresses. I'm all for seeds counting as less food for cooking, but at least make it so dwarves won't eat them unless they are starving or something.

[Warlord255]

I'm not sure why seeds on harvest is any better than seeds on eating/brewing. I admit, it makes more sense (I suppose), but wouldn't rotten plants leave you with less seeds than if they were gained on harvest (ignoring the "two seeds" limit).

Also, eating seeds is a BAD, BAD idea. It could murder early fortresses. I'm all for seeds counting as less food for cooking, but at least make it so dwarves won't eat them unless they are starving or something.

That would probably be a good idea. I still think we need a third toggle in the Kitchen for EAT/DON'T EAT.

[LegoLord]

I'm not sure why seeds on harvest is any better than seeds on eating/brewing. I admit, it makes more sense (I suppose), but wouldn't rotten plants leave you with less seeds than if they were gained on harvest (ignoring the "two seeds" limit).

Also, eating seeds is a BAD, BAD idea. It could murder early fortresses. I'm all for seeds counting as less food for cooking, but at least make it so dwarves won't eat them unless they are starving or something.

That would probably be a good idea. I still think we need a third toggle in the Kitchen for EAT/DON'T EAT.

OH, YES, YES, YES, PLEASE!

[Warlord255]

I'm not sure why seeds on harvest is any better than seeds on eating/brewing. I admit, it makes more sense (I suppose), but wouldn't rotten plants leave you with less seeds than if they were gained on harvest (ignoring the "two seeds" limit).

Also, eating seeds is a BAD, BAD idea. It could murder early fortresses. I'm all for seeds counting as less food for cooking, but at least make it so dwarves won't eat them unless they are starving or something.

That would probably be a good idea. I still think we need a third toggle in the Kitchen for EAT/DON'T EAT.

OH, YES, YES, YES, PLEASE!

It would certainly make starving much easier. You could even set up a cafeteria!

"The special today is live rat. Eat it or beat it."

[Footkerchief]

That's kind of trampling on their free will a little, isn't it?  I personally find it hilarious when hungry dwarves gobble all the plump helmets before the brewer can get to them.

[Warlord255]

That's kind of trampling on their free will a little, isn't it?  I personally find it hilarious when hungry dwarves gobble all the plump helmets before the brewer can get to them.

Hmm. I suppose that's fair.

Seeds as a starving food prioritized after vermin, then? Maybe a [SEED_EDIBLE_RAW] tag?

[Footkerchief]

That's kind of trampling on their free will a little, isn't it?  I personally find it hilarious when hungry dwarves gobble all the plump helmets before the brewer can get to them.

Hmm. I suppose that's fair.

Seeds as a starving food prioritized after vermin, then? Maybe a [SEED_EDIBLE_RAW] tag?

Yeah, that should work.  I wonder if the seed/mill/drink/extract stuff is going to get cleaned up as part of the material list changes.

[LegoLord]

I'm not sure why seeds on harvest is any better than seeds on eating/brewing. I admit, it makes more sense (I suppose), but wouldn't rotten plants leave you with less seeds than if they were gained on harvest (ignoring the "two seeds" limit).

Also, eating seeds is a BAD, BAD idea. It could murder early fortresses. I'm all for seeds counting as less food for cooking, but at least make it so dwarves won't eat them unless they are starving or something.

That would probably be a good idea. I still think we need a third toggle in the Kitchen for EAT/DON'T EAT.

OH, YES, YES, YES, PLEASE!

It would certainly make starving much easier. You could even set up a cafeteria!

"The special today is live rat. Eat it or beat it."

My dwarves don't have enough food issues.  However, other food system improvement suggestions are horrible (too realistic)

[Pilsu]

I'd be happy if kitchens stopped cooking milk. Either that or cheese making would not require it to be tagged as cookable

[Impaler[WrG]]

The seed system really needs a fundamental overhaul, the current system assumes everything is a 'fruit' in the sense that the edible parts of the plant are separate from the seed.  It can never reflect grains well with this assumption.

My recommendation would be to extract seeds in the Farmers workshop.  Most harvested plants must go through a process at the workshop which would produce the seed and ready the plants for eating.  For grains this is simply separating the grains from the bulk of the plant and would leave units of grain and units of 'straw' material.  From their the grain could be brewed or milled, neither of which produce seeds.  For a more fruit like body their are up to two operations, one to produce seeds and potentially another to make the plants edible if they aren't naturally so. The first seed producing operation gives a much greater seed output per plant perhaps as much as 5x normal and the seed stack produced is automatically bagged, much like a plant to bag operation, nothing but the seeds are produced in this process.  Normal processing produces only the usable/eatable product were familiar with.

Of course this system would need to be paired with an intelligent system to automate the seed extraction rates, something like a seed quota which automatically queues the seed producing operations when seed levels are below X and prevents all your seeds from being milled or cooked.

[Random832]

The seed system really needs a fundamental overhaul, the current system assumes everything is a 'fruit' in the sense that the edible parts of the plant are separate from the seed.  It can never reflect grains well with this assumption.

My recommendation would be to extract seeds in the Farmers workshop.  Most harvested plants must go through a process at the workshop which would produce the seed and ready the plants for eating.  For grains this is simply separating the grains from the bulk of the plant and would leave units of grain and units of 'straw' material.  From their the grain could be brewed or milled, neither of which produce seeds.  For a more fruit like body their are up to two operations, one to produce seeds and potentially another to make the plants edible if they aren't naturally so. The first seed producing operation gives a much greater seed output per plant perhaps as much as 5x normal and the seed stack produced is automatically bagged, much like a plant to bag operation, nothing but the seeds are produced in this process.  Normal processing produces only the usable/eatable product were familiar with.

None of which properly models mushroom cultivation. ("spawn" aren't really the same as mushroom seeds, for instance)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushroom_cultivation

Medieval tech implies it would be grown outdoors on logs, but one may wish to assume that since plump helmets are a staple food for dwarves they will have developed more advanced techniques than in our own world.

[Demonic Gophers]

I assume that the seed that remains after processing grain is simply a small amount of the grain that is saved, for planting purposes.

I agree that seeds should need to be used in large numbers, when cooked, to count as an ingredient.  One wild strawberry seed certainly shouldn't contribute enough food for a meal.

However, having dwarves randomly devour your seed stores could too easily cripple any early farming operation.

[LegoLord]

The seed system really needs a fundamental overhaul, the current system assumes everything is a 'fruit' in the sense that the edible parts of the plant are separate from the seed.  It can never reflect grains well with this assumption.

My recommendation would be to extract seeds in the Farmers workshop.  Most harvested plants must go through a process at the workshop which would produce the seed and ready the plants for eating.  For grains this is simply separating the grains from the bulk of the plant and would leave units of grain and units of 'straw' material.  From their the grain could be brewed or milled, neither of which produce seeds.  For a more fruit like body their are up to two operations, one to produce seeds and potentially another to make the plants edible if they aren't naturally so. The first seed producing operation gives a much greater seed output per plant perhaps as much as 5x normal and the seed stack produced is automatically bagged, much like a plant to bag operation, nothing but the seeds are produced in this process.  Normal processing produces only the usable/eatable product were familiar with.

Of course this system would need to be paired with an intelligent system to automate the seed extraction rates, something like a seed quota which automatically queues the seed producing operations when seed levels are below X and prevents all your seeds from being milled or cooked.

Why would seeds need to be extracted?  I mean, how many plants are there in which you actually eat the seed?  People normally take those out.

[Warlord255]

I'd be happy if kitchens stopped cooking milk. Either that or cheese making would not require it to be tagged as cookable

If it was drinkable as an alternative to water - especially for wounded soldiers - I would be pleased.