Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Draco18s]

The hidden talents of the dwarves should just be that sometimes. If all immigrants automatically are the most effective they can be...

That's as far as I read because you interpreted wrong.  They aren't AS TALENTED as they can ever be, no, what they are is TALENTED at what they're MOST GOOD AT with room for improvement.  Which addresses Milskidasith's concern (which I mostly didn't read either).

[Silverionmox]

The hidden talents of the dwarves should just be that sometimes. If all immigrants automatically are the most effective they can be...

That's as far as I read because you interpreted wrong.  They aren't AS TALENTED as they can ever be, no, what they are is TALENTED at what they're MOST GOOD AT with room for improvement.  Which addresses Milskidasith's concern (which I mostly didn't read either).

I did get that. If all immigrants are automatically experienced in the profession they also are the most talented in, we'll take it for granted and thus the concept of talents becomes irrelevant; what effectively happened is that there's a penalty for giving dwarves a new profession, since that inevitably will be a profession they'll have less of a knack for.

The difference is that talent in your suggestion is implemented as a maximum for skill levels, while in mine it's a quality and happiness bonus.

[Draco18s]

I did get that. If all immigrants are automatically experienced in the profession they also are the most talented in, we'll take it for granted and thus the concept of talents becomes irrelevant; what effectively happened is that there's a penalty for giving dwarves a new profession, since that inevitably will be a profession they'll have less of a knack for.

The difference is that talent in your suggestion is implemented as a maximum for skill levels, while in mine it's a quality and happiness bonus.

I dislike.
1) Quality limits, regardless of skill level don't make sense
2) Happyness bonus from skill level doesn't make sense
3) Unnecessary Fake Difficulty
4) Dwarves who show up on your doorstep only come with 1 skill/profession.  Dwarves under my plan would have 3 extremely high potentials, only one of which they're trained in.
5) Re-profession-ing dwarves SHOULD have a negative impact.  What would you think of God suddenly said that your job function was useless now here have this mining pick, there's gold in them hills?  I'm sure you'd curse his name till he crushed you under a bridge.
6) My method makes the economy work better, none of that 30 grand master stonecrafters churning out ☼quality stoneware mugs☼ bull shit: your average shmo is only a professional with his job function, therefor only produces -goods- or +goods+.

Here, read this part:

Actually, no, I think that works: your dwarves who "just suck" at some skill can still be competent at it with experience, and those who have normal/average potential can be professionals at their peak, while the select few achieve master or grand master.  This makes linguistic sense, cuts down on the "champion spam" and "everyone's legendary!" problems, as well as reduces the need for recruiting peasants to make your furniture: you find a farm boy and apprentice him, but he proves to be lackluster, but he can knock out cheap furniture for the masses.

[Silverionmox]

1. I never meant to imply a decoupling of skill and quality; having talent would simply give a better chance for making masterpieces.
2. The happiness does not come from skill, but from the dwarf's special knack/liking for the material or action.
3. No, dwarves function as normal (i.e. normally a fully experienced dwarf produces superior quality items and an occasional masterpiece), but those who want a larger proportion of masterpieces -or actually want the personalities of their dwarves to matter- need to actually use the preferences screen now and then. A fair trade.
4. I didn't say anything about the quantity of talents.
5. What would you think if God suddenly said "Throw that pick away, time for the job you've always wanted to do." You're assuming that each immigrant somehow got to freely choose his favoured job AND found his calling with the first try. They're migrants for a reason.
6. The quality that the average worker delivers is more a function of the frequency of moods and the XP required to level up, rather than the ultimate cap. I'd rather say slow skill progression, requiring decades to reach mastery, instead of capping it.

(On a tangent, an economy that evicts people when there's empty housing available is fundamentally broken.)

[Milskidasith]

I'd like to point out, once again, if the highest non artifact granted skill was master, practically all your arguments about WHY we need a cap would be gone, because they rely mostly on semantics.

[Draco18s]

1) See #3 below.
2) Completely tangential to the topic at hand.  Liking working with a specific material (or being around it, etc. etc.) is another suggestion.
3) In other words: lets not fix the problem of having everyone being the Grand Master of everything and instead give said masters super special bonuses for being awesome if they were born under a certain star (i.e. "these guys are super special awesome because the RNG said so, so in addition to being super special just like everyone else due to experience, they do THIS too").
4) But I did, #4 was about my suggestion
5) While quite interesting and realistic, see my initial point #3
6) Or, you know, the tags (competent, skilled, professional, grand master) could make sense.  I.E. distribution of skill levels throughout the fortress should have 1 to 3 Masters and Grand Masters for any given profession, but dozens of Professionals.  Currently we only need 1 of any given profession provided that he's Legendary (or higher) with exceptions based on the broken economy (for other suggestions about the economy see this post).