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Author Topic: A Question of Scale  (Read 3925 times)

cbpye

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A Question of Scale
« on: November 14, 2008, 02:34:53 pm »

I was just curious... let's say I was walking from one human town to another in the world of Dwarf fortress, and the towns were... well, like this:



Well, those are actually ruins.  Anyway, what would you say is the approximate distance of that road segment I've highlighted (faintly in red) there?

Neonivek

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2008, 02:37:21 pm »

50 miles maybe... Probably less.

Judging by how far people in the town tell me Caves are.
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Glacies

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2008, 02:38:34 pm »

Roughly a 16 hour walk.

So that would be about..oh, say..nearly 100 miles. At a guess.

JoRo

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2008, 02:48:40 pm »

Roughly a 16 hour walk.

So that would be about..oh, say..nearly 100 miles. At a guess.

That would be walking pretty darn fast.  I guess 6mph wouldn't be impossible on the road, but your adventurer is wearing armor and weapons.
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Neonivek

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2008, 02:50:26 pm »

Roughly a 16 hour walk.

So that would be about..oh, say..nearly 100 miles. At a guess.

That would be walking pretty darn fast.  I guess 6mph wouldn't be impossible on the road, but your adventurer is wearing armor and weapons.

Also I would assume that he would be walking between 2-3 miles per hour and only walk around 12-16 hours in a day.
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Creamcorn

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2008, 03:50:07 pm »

Roughly a 16 hour walk.

So that would be about..oh, say..nearly 100 miles. At a guess.

That would be walking pretty darn fast.  I guess 6mph wouldn't be impossible on the road, but your adventurer is wearing armor and weapons.

Also I would assume that he would be walking between 2-3 miles per hour and only walk around 12-16 hours in a day.

It would probably be easier to grab a step counter, and start walking for oh... ten minutes. Than somehow use those results to figure out this problem, and don't forget to divide that by two to figure out how long it takes a dwarf to walk from x to y.
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Fenrir

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2008, 04:24:10 pm »

We could determine how far that is if we knew how long one dwarf-sized tile (not a world-map tile) is.
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Creamcorn

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2008, 04:36:38 pm »

We could determine how far that is if we knew how long one dwarf-sized tile (not a world-map tile) is.

Big enough to hold a dragon, but not enough for a dwarf sized wagon.
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cbpye

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2008, 06:01:41 pm »

I just found http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Region, where it states:

Quote
Each (region) is composed of 16x16 = 256 blocks of 48x48 = 2304 tiles each

So if I'm reading that right, not including the squares those ruined towns occupy in that screengrab, that stretch of road is 10 squares long and each of those squares is 48 "tiles" long.  That gives a total road length of 480 tiles.  So, what's the length of a tile?

EDIT
I wasn't quite grasping that wiki page, I went and measured pixels in a 2x2 square fortress (smallest I could get it).  Turns out that road (not including the squares designating ruined cities) is 10*16*48=7,680 tiles long.  Since humans, dwarves, elves and other humanoids all occupy one tile, I'm going to use a D&D-ism and say that each tile denotes a 5-foot by 5-foot square.  Meaning: that road is 38,400 feet long (or 7.27 miles).

So, assuming a humanoid occupies a 5x5 foot square in DF:
an 3x3 square plot of land is 720 square feet.
a stretch of road exactly 4 regions long would be 15,360 feet long (approx. 2.9 miles).

Of course, this all assumes a tile is a 5x5-foot square.  Anyone have a better point of measure for a tile?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2008, 06:44:13 pm by cbpye »
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PTTG??

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2008, 07:18:20 pm »

Actually, judging by the amount of water in a tile and how long each unit would last a dwarf, tiles are 2.5x2.5x6.25 feet. So, Cbpye, that's half the distance.
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Demonic Gophers

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2008, 08:06:19 pm »

What we should be doing here is coming up with a reasonable estimate of walking speed, and using this to determine the dimensions of a tile.  A single tile can hold a bed, so 2.5 feet doesn't seem like enough to me.
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Yngar the Wise

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2008, 09:01:49 pm »

A single tile can also contain a dragon or colossus.
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Tahin

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2008, 11:15:46 pm »

Actually, judging by the amount of water in a tile and how long each unit would last a dwarf, tiles are 2.5x2.5x6.25 feet. So, Cbpye, that's half the distance.

You do realize that dwarves are so much smaller than a human, and also probably have a wildly different metabolism, what with the booze-dependency and all, that any comparison to humans is going to be wildly inaccurate.
The problem with trying to figure out the exact size of tiles is that they're so abstract at the moment that any method of measurement is going to vary wildly with every other measurement.
Until Toady codes in rulers, we'll have to just go with the fact that a dwarf can stand comfortably in a square, but any more dwarves in that square and it becomes cramped. With that in mind, 5 feet by 5 feet sounds about right, but really, it's just too abstract to know.
In fact, we don't even know how big anything is at the moment as all we have to go on is an arbitrary number.
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Demonic Gophers

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2008, 12:08:23 am »

A single tile can also contain a dragon or colossus.

Ah, but we all have personal experience with beds.  Or so I assume, anyway.
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Neonivek

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Re: A Question of Scale
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2008, 12:45:23 am »

Well Dragons and a Collosus arn't exactly good ideas to judge the size of a tile since it isn't an exact measurement

Anyhow let me see...

Size 20 is a whale shark... assuming Wikipedia is correct (which it often isn't) is 40 feet long and an unknown width.

So that is around 2 feet per size and since there is nothing above Size 20, this gives us an estimate that each square is 40 feet by 40 feet.

Of course that is only if we apply real world physics.

Of course as we know the Earth to the moon axis is an ENTIRELY different story.
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