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[Pie]

I'm not sure how much of this is already implemented/will be implemented but I thought that this would be a good system:
If the arrow/bolt lands on the square of a creature, the computer randomly selects a number from 1 to 7. Depending on the outcome, it would do the following:

7 - 100% miss - flies straight over the creature's head
6 - 10% chance to hit head
5 - 30% chance to hit head, 30% chance to hit the upper body
4 - 50% chance to hit body, 50% chance to hit organs - solid hit
3 - 30% chance to hit legs, 30% chance to hit the lower body
2 - 10% chance to hit feet
1 - 100% miss - thuds into the ground beneath the creature's feet

As you can see the numbers are akin to height above the ground. And when I say upper body, I mean it will select a random part of the upper body to damage, and with organs, it will select a random organ to hit etc. This system would go on top of the current system, so things which affect damage done would still affect it now.

And as dwarves reach certain skill levels, the end results are more and more limited. So a newbie gets all 7, but a legendary crossbow dwarf can only get 3, 4 or 5 per bolt that is there. Although this system is fairly complex, I think it would add a little bit of balance to crossbows as well as some realism.

A more complicated version would be that when the dwarf fires the arrow, it starts at number 4, then after a square or something goes up to 5 and then 6, then 7, then 6 and then down to 1, sort of simulating an arrow's arc. This would mean that at point blank range, almost anyone could score a decent hit, but over longer distances, only legendary crossbow dwarves would be able to get a 4 (as their arc would effectively go 4, 5, 4, 3.

What do you think?

[flabort]

but... what if the head of the creature (hypotheticly) is below the lowerbody?

[Pie]

but... what if the head of the creature (hypotheticly) is below the lowerbody?

Well then Toady would have coded something saying that the creature's head was where it was and so could reverse the numbers, or just change what each number does.

[Silverionmox]

11/08/2008: 1103. Positions and relations for body parts within their parent body part to give wounds a chance to seem more reasonable instead of being sort of loopity loopy paths around the parent part made by a supposedly straight object, and some other morph bookkeeping.

I think you're a few days late.

[Granite26]

I'm going to miss the realism of magic bullets...

[Pie]

11/08/2008: 1103. Positions and relations for body parts within their parent body part to give wounds a chance to seem more reasonable instead of being sort of loopity loopy paths around the parent part made by a supposedly straight object, and some other morph bookkeeping.

I think you're a few days late.

I saw that, but this is all about making arrows hit the right place on the body etc. Also, this system is about making skills more relevant to arrows hitting good places.

[Silverionmox]

I know, but I consider your table a subset of hitting the target -with insufficient accuracy- rather than a subset of missing it. If an arrow misses something, it's just a loose projectile, and might as well share the rules of shrapnel, chopped off noses and debris flying from collapsing building.

Anyway, flabort's concern is appropriate: it's much to specific: you could revise it to included non-humanoids - in their various poses - and include projectiles of all kinds rather than just arrows. For example, shooting at flying creatures would need a wholly different table already.

[Footkerchief]

but... what if the head of the creature (hypotheticly) is below the lowerbody?

Yeah, this system makes way too many assumptions of this kind.  I'm pretty sure the new relative body part sizes and positions will handle this in a much more generalized way.

[Pie]

Well, since you guys are basically thinking that this system is too simple for creatures with different properties, here is a more encompassing version.

1	2	3	4
5	6	7	8
9	10	11	12
13	14	15	16

So it could be that when designating new types of creatures, each part is assigned an area. So area 6 could be like head and neck or something. This would mean that larger creatures would be much easier to hit and more experienced guys would only hit areas which are important, like the head or body. And you could have shit like if an area is connected to 8 areas there is no chance of missing, just a chance to hit one of the neighboring parts, and if it is connected to 7, there would be a 1 in 8 chance of missing etc.

[Warlord255]

I'd say the main thing would need to be a cap on crossbow firing speed.

[DanielLC]

So instead of randomly picking a body part, it randomly picks a spot and does the body part there? What difference does it make? Random is random.

[i are not good with compu]

I think, like Wrestling, all weapons should have a list for choosing to attack specific body parts (as well as the default dumb attack, which takes less time in exchange for occasionally targeting the left pinky).  This handily solves problems with 'chance to hit *body-part*'. 

[Neonivek]

My gosh... if Pie's Avatar doesn't scar me for life... Id actually be able to read more of this topic...

however from what I got the jist of before I was mortified... It should somewhat depend on the side of bodyparts compared to the sizes of all the other bodyparts as well as perhaps its ability to move around as well as I guess where it generally faces.

Head shots are quite a bit less common everywhere but Online Shooters then they are in Dwarf Fortress

[Warlord255]

... if Pie's Avatar doesn't scar me for life...

Youuuuu pansy! DROP AND GIVE ME 20!

That said, chance-to-hit/body part prioritization is relatively important. However, one has to remember that torso shots count for the most; therefore making them easier to hit by way of chance-percentage actually makes crossbows deadlier.

Lower damage potential for low-skill shots is one way to accommodate this; you still have the same chance-to-hit per body part, but at a low skill, you have a higher chance to graze the part (light gray to brown) than deal real damage.

I still think capping the reload speed for crossbows would be a good way to balance them across the board, as even insta-kill shots are weakened by reduced speed.

[Pie]

So instead of randomly picking a body part, it randomly picks a spot and does the body part there? What difference does it make? Random is random.

It effectively weights it.

... if Pie's Avatar doesn't scar me for life...

Youuuuu pansy! DROP AND GIVE ME 20!

That said, chance-to-hit/body part prioritization is relatively important. However, one has to remember that torso shots count for the most; therefore making them easier to hit by way of chance-percentage actually makes crossbows deadlier.

Lower damage potential for low-skill shots is one way to accommodate this; you still have the same chance-to-hit per body part, but at a low skill, you have a higher chance to graze the part (light gray to brown) than deal real damage.

I still think capping the reload speed for crossbows would be a good way to balance them across the board, as even insta-kill shots are weakened by reduced speed.

Ok, so the chance to actually hit ANYTHING with my 1-7 system and a nooby dwarf, when the bolt is on the same square as the dwarf is:
(1/7)*(1/10) = 1/70
(1/7)*(6/10) = 6/70
(1/7)*(1) = 10/70
(1/7)*(6/10) = 6/70
(1/7)*(1/10) = 1/70
Total = 24/70 = 66% chance to miss, 34% chance to hit

And if we only consider hits to the body or head areas (the severe ones), the chances are as follows:
(1/7)*(1/10) = 1/70
(1/7)*(6/10) = 6/70
(1/7)*(1) = 10/70
(1/7)*(3/10) = 3/70
Total = 20/70 = 71% chance to miss, 29% chance to hit

So yes, it would increase the percent of HITS which were on the body or head, but it increases the chances of a noob missing. At the moment, I think that if the bolt is on the same square as a creature, it hits it. This system would mean that seasoned veterans would hit almost every time they got a bolt to go to the same square as the enemy, but to be just as effective with noobs you would need more than 3 times as many (as noobs have lower accuracy anyway).

I think that the best system I have devised thus far is the one involving 1 - 7 and the arrow changing states every few squares, to simulate an arc.