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[Cles]

Hey all. My fellow ho/tg/oblins should all know about Kobold Camp by now.

Download link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7U4O3P2Q

Archived Thread: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/2965122/


Now then, gentlemen. We can rebuild it. Make it stronger, faster, less inclined to kill itself, etc. I want to hear what YOU want to change and/or add to this mod, fellow campers!

I fixed the bow issue, and am seriously thinking of figuring out a way of creating wooden mechanisms if that's possible at all.

[Marlowe]

Why did you leave out a vital skill like mining (together with it associated equipment) but put in a useless skill like animal caretaking (which does nothing for the animal). Kobolds have some metal and they live in caves. They must do SOME mining. You're aware Elves don't have farming allowed,  right? Even though they have herbalists and weavers and clothiers?

 The absence of professions from an NPC races' files should not be taken so seriously as a matter of design.

[Cles]

Why did you leave out a vital skill like mining (together with it associated equipment) but put in a useless skill like animal caretaking (which does nothing for the animal). Kobolds have some metal and they live in caves. They must do SOME mining. You're aware Elves don't have farming allowed,  right? Even though they have herbalists and weavers and clothiers?

 The absence of professions from an NPC races' files should not be taken so seriously as a matter of design.

Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention that I didn't create this mod. I think he was going for a tribal theme with the kobolds, and the mod adds a shovel that still allows them to mine.

[Gobbo]

Why did you leave out a vital skill like mining (together with it associated equipment) but put in a useless skill like animal caretaking (which does nothing for the animal).

Bitch some more.
Feel free to take out caretaking and taming, they're pretty useless anyway.
Mining is far from a 'vital skill' for kobolds. The whole point of their primitivism is simplicity. They don't have masonry, smithing, or smelting, so you're mostly limited to an above-ground village built from wood. It's hard, sure, and there's a lot of restrictions, but that's the point. It can be assumed some massive central kobold fortress has the advanced technology to build copper weapons, and you can trade for them, but you can't make your own. The shovels are meant to be soft-earth digging only, mostly for moats and water redirection.

Kobold Camp is about simplicity and challenge. It's about making a living out of skin and bone and playing trade for all the things you can't provide yourself. If you want to dig a massive fortress into the stone and carve out valuable ore, producing everything yourself, just play a goddamn Dwarf. That's not why Kobold Camp exists.



You will get decimated by elven ambushes and swallowed whole by carp as you struggle just to trade for weak copper weaponry. But that's what life is like for a Kobold.

[Marlowe]

 But that's what life is like for this person's eccentric and logically inconsistant idea of a Kobold.

 Cave dwellers that can only use have to use soft earth digging...and are dependant on wood...

 Massive advanced central kobold fortress....right.

 This doesn't match up with Kobolds as they are in game at all, and makes us swallow a hell of a lot far-fetched explanations.

 Also, taming is a damn good skill. Especially for a carnivour race that's poor at hunting.
 

[Gobbo]

1. Kobolds are only cave dwellers in that they live in natural caves. If you want to embark on a cave, be my guest, but since the game pretty much only generates OCCUPIED caves you'll have a hard time. They're not stonecarvers and they don't use picks.
2. "Advanced" in that they can make copper weapons. It's not far-fetched by any means to assume that even if Kobolds are capable of making copper, your vulnerable little village doesn't have the luxury of smithing.
3. Kobolds have no use for taming anyway, and Kobolds raising livestock is unlikely.
4. Kobolds don't suck at hunting.

You have a hard time grasping Kobolds as primitive, tribal creatures. That's what this mod is designed for.

[Marlowe]

1. Kobolds are only cave dwellers in that they live in natural caves. If you want to embark on a cave, be my guest, but since the game pretty much only generates OCCUPIED caves you'll have a hard time. They're not stonecarvers and they don't use picks.

And, has previously stated; Elves technically can't farm. Or do ANY of their trademark woodworking. Yet they're obviously intended to be able to do so.

2. "Advanced" in that they can make copper weapons. It's not far-fetched by any means to assume that even if Kobolds are capable of making copper, your vulnerable little village doesn't have the luxury of smithing.

Which removes the major thrill of the whole game; going from a vulnerable little squat to a self-sufficient city.

3. Kobolds have no use for taming anyway, and Kobolds raising livestock is unlikely.

Strange comment, because that's exactly what those you've played Kobolds on this forum seem to DO.

4. Kobolds don't suck at hunting.

No, they're just less well adapted for it than any other race. Lower size and weak weapons=beaten up more often.

[Gobbo]

Which removes the major thrill of the whole game; going from a vulnerable little squat to a self-sufficient city.

See, here's the problem.

It's like I said: that's not the point. This isn't the same as regular Dwarf Fortress.

Kobold Camp is designed to play differently.
Kobolds are weak, barely sentient, easy targets, and incapable of advanced tasks. The point of Kobold Camp is to play as a vulnerable, primitive, tribal civilization, because that's what Kobolds ARE: Weak, primitive, easily wiped out. Hell, if their weapons could be made of bone instead of copper, they would be.

If you want to carve out tunnels and underground rooms, get some forges going, crank out awesome armor and make an impenetrable fortress, then play as a fucking dwarf. No one's stopping you. But don't sit here whining about how it's different or how it needs to be more like Dwarf Fortress. What you're asking for would basically be Dwarf Fortress, but with slightly weaker Dwarves.

[EuchreJack]

RE: Hunting- Kobolds use bows and arrows to hunt, so their size doesn't mean much in determining their hunting skill.

RE: Copper Weapons- I doubt any Kobolds do any smithing with any metal, not even copper.  Most likely, the Kobolds either steal or trade for their copper weapons.  Considering how much these guys steal, there's bound to be some creatures with smithing abilities willing to trade cheap copper weapons for loot, at a healthy markup.

Considering these guys live in caves, and seem only good at stealing from the other civilizations, it's safe to say that the Kobolds who actually try to form some kind of settlement are probably the geniuses among the Kobolds, so feel free to add a few skills.  Honestly, they really shouldn't have any, except maybe some butchery, tanning, and leathermaking.

[Cles]

Hey, is it possible to make all-wood spears? If not, is obsidian the only rock that can be used to make rock weapons, or can I say, take some copper ore to a craftbold workshop and have him chip me up some crude daggers?

[Erom]

Hey, is it possible to make all-wood spears? If not, is obsidian the only rock that can be used to make rock weapons, or can I say, take some copper ore to a craftbold workshop and have him chip me up some crude daggers?

You would have to add the [SHARP] tag to copper ore, which sounds a little silly. However, there is a clever bit of mod hackery kicking around that would let you use the bowyers workshop (which kobolds should obviously have anyway since they use bows) to make wood or bone spears- it basically relies on making them ranged weapons that use a non-existent ammo.

Also note that if kobolds can work copper, they should also be able to work silver and gold, since they are also found in soil layers, can also be melted at mediocre temperatures, and can also be cold worked to crude shapes without really any heat at all.

[Marlowe]

See, hunters are always running out of arrows when hunting. Also, hunters can get swarmed. This is what makes it a dangerous job. YOU KNOW THIS, it doesn't do you any favours to try to pretend that you don't. Please don't try to tell me size and the corresponding close combat disadvantage doesn't matter.

It makes no sense people with no metalworking to give a thief, whose only job is to steal and not get detected, a metal weapon. They would use their metal for their own survival and it makes no sense in the slightest to give such a weapon to somebody whose only job is to run away.

Back to Gobbo.

If you'd gone the whole hog, and made a complete wood age mod, I doubt if I'd have started "bitching". But you haven't done that. You've created a tribe of retards who are incapable of even emulating the works of their parent civilisation. The only way this is payable AT ALL is by postulating a daddy warbucks parent culture that sees fit to trade key items which alone give a fighting chance to people that have no way, for entirely metagame reasons, of ever being able to repay them. That's seriously rubbish. "My brother back home can work metal....but I never can, because someone said no".

 Also, you've taken a fantasy race that, as far as they have an established profile at all, are highly associated with the underground and made you've it impossible for them to live so. And yet you keep saying "Because that's what Kobolds ARE". No. This is not what kobolds are. "Kobolds" are a fictional race. Based on taking a German word for "Goblin" and blowing some shreds of fluff around it. This is nothing to do with "Kobolds".  This is your little idea that you've nailed a "kobold" name to. Nothing more. We all have are own ideas about things that exit only in collective imagination, but your insistance on stating that your idea is the correct one and justifies everything else sort of gets under my skin.

 You keep saying, play Dwarves. Frankly, simply being a carnivour race makes Kobolds quite different enough from dwarves without anything else. the major Dwarf food source. Gone. That alone makes a huge difference to planning.

 Finally, Dwarf fortress plays construction and planning well, or at least in a fun way. It does tactical positioning and movement hilariously badly. This mod basically nerfs the first and emphasizes the second. While what you're trying to do might be fun given the right engine, this is a poor thing to do with the game.

 

 

[Cles]

See, hunters, underground, you sir are a fluff monger, etc.

Personally, I imagine them as being either jungle kobolds from...some obscure 2nd ed book I've read (they weren't like the jungle kobolds of Unearthed Arcana at all.) or a raiding encampment that's meant to position itself in a small corner of the world with a lot of different settlements within easy reach so they can send runners to steal shit.

I kind of like playing a tribe of evolutionary abortions.

You would have to add the [SHARP] tag to copper ore, which sounds a little silly. However, there is a clever bit of mod hackery kicking around that would let you use the bowyers workshop (which kobolds should obviously have anyway since they use bows) to make wood or bone spears- it basically relies on making them ranged weapons that use a non-existent ammo.

Also note that if kobolds can work copper, they should also be able to work silver and gold, since they are also found in soil layers, can also be melted at mediocre temperatures, and can also be cold worked to crude shapes without really any heat at all.

Ah, thanks. Will I have to remove the ranged tag from the spears to use them properly?

[Gobbo]

STOP HAVING FUN DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND HOW NONSENSICAL THIS IS YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ENJOY IT WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO ALL THE THINGS DWARVES DO AND PLAY EXACTLY LIKE GOBLINS IF YOU CHANGE THE WAY THIS GAME IS PLAYED YOU'RE STUPID IT'S ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED ONE WAY HEY ARE YOU LISTENING STOP HAVING FUN GUYS I MEAN IT

Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome kobolds are.

[Brendan]

NO ITEMS
FOX ONLY
FINAL DESTINATION

Fix'd