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[Dark]

Well I presume it may be easier to program something 2d, but in truth im not entirely sure. For starters I have absolutely no idea how to use programming to get graphics onto a screen, whether 2d or 3d. However I do have experience using map editing software for various games, most notable of which is Hammer Editor for Half-Life2. Since I learned how to do so from various tutorial sites, I reckon I could do the same now. However I must now go and take my turn in the BotG:Rp thread.

[ March 07, 2008: Message edited by: Dark ]

[Kagus]

It kinda depends.  From what I can assume (one of my finest and most-excersied abilities), 2D is easier to make a base setting for, but is harder to add new graphics to later on.  A 3D engine, conversely, would be harder to set up but easier to make new things for.  

I personally have no problem playing a 2D game.  I mean, after all, we have been playing Dwarf Fortress.  However, I will not play something that uses anime graphics, as I have a particular dislike for them.

BYOND doesn't really look that impressive...  If that program window remains when you're just playing the game, I would have to say no to it.  If it's just there for the creation of the game, then it might be of some use.

However, I am unsure if it allows for a changing environment, such as digging into a mountain or building a house, or if it can handle a skill and crafting system of the type we're looking for.

[Fenrir]

quote:Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>BYOND doesn't really look that impressive...</STRONG>

It isn't.

quote:Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>If that program window remains when you're just playing the game, I would have to say no to it.</STRONG>

I think the progam window is always 'there', but I think you can change it so it doesn't look like it. I'd have to do some experimenting.

quote:Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>However, I am unsure if it allows for a changing environment, such as digging into a mountain or building a house, or if it can handle a skill and crafting system of the type we're looking for.</STRONG>

I don't see why it wouldn't.

The biggest problem I see is that, unless it's been changed since I was last there, movement is kinda clunky.

At any rate, it's worth looking into it. However, I would like to finish my web RPG first before making any more commitments.

[Dark]

I dont think I'll be starting anything either. At least not until we all decide on it. For now I'll just try out this tutorial for making Tetris, for practice since I have nothing better to do for now except play DF. I'm sure it will help later if we do finally decide to try and make something. The first step is always the hardest for me, the rest tends to be easier...

Edit: Bah! How hard can it be to find a good tutorial? Very hard it seems!

Edit #2: Maybe I give up too easily, or maybe I can see into the future and know that I just wont be able to find a good tutorial. Grumbles!

[ March 07, 2008: Message edited by: Dark ]

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>I thought I'd been reading something about that before.  No matter, the Conan films were dumb enough (not to say they weren't entertaining, just that they were dumb), I don't think we really need a game for it.</STRONG>

I'd like to point out that the books were really fun to read, way back when. I believe they're basing it more on those than on any movies.

[Dark]

Alright I surrender! Learning how to create 3D environments from three different 2D perspectives is easy. Learning how to shape these 3D environments through clipping and vertice manipulation is easy. Learning how to create nice looking displacements and use texturing effectively is easy. Even using nodraw and func_detail to optimise is easy. Programming is not.  

I guess I'll just try again some other time. I dont think im starting small enough, but I'll get it eventually... I hope.

[qwertyuiopas]

Well, if standard games fail, make your own.
I am imagining a game entirely for dwarf stuff.
Dig into a mountain, the strongest material can make wall indestructable or something, basically, a single-mountain game with a procedurally generated wilderness that is unchangeable, but with other mountains stretching on forever. A person/group of people get together and start a fortress, no depth limits, as it only loads what can be seen, allowing limitless tunneling even linking two maountains together, to prevent colapse, magic can be used to seal the rock from changes, and all that fun stuff.

The development system would use a status_Base_cores_requirements_bloats
with
status:0-unplayable/inteface barely startes, 1 is playable(even barely) and so on
base: an essential gameplay element, interface components mostly
core: important goals that can be left out without destroying the game, although wihout these, you may be unable to do anything interesting
requirements: stuff that needs to be done to lay the foundation of later features
bloats: nifty things that add no major game effects.

Resources would be measured in weight.

The idea is based off many other games.
I may be able to start, although I am also a dabbling programmer. 10/500 programming exp?
Oh and I can use non microsoft C++ finally.

[ March 07, 2008: Message edited by: qwertyuiopas ]

[Fenrir]

Ideas we got, qwerty. Skill is another matter.

[Dark]

Indeed, it looks like we're all only dabbling. Still, maybe I can figure stuff out tomorrow. My only problem is programming doesnt really have a 'rulebook', and there are so many languages, which one should I choose? C++ is powerful, but Visual Basic is a bit easier. Currently my first objective is getting something tile based that I can move around on, like DF.

Hmm, perhaps I could find something similar to the Valve Developer Community...

There is good news though, once one of us gets good, we all get good!

[ March 07, 2008: Message edited by: Dark ]

[Fenrir]

quote:Originally posted by Dark:
<STRONG>There is good news though, once one of us gets good, we all get good!</STRONG>

There is more to success than skill. One must have determination, focus, and patience to achieve victory! Each man (or woman, as the case may be) must find these virtues for themselves if they are to prevail over adversity!

[Dark]

I think I may have found the solution to my problem, and no it isnt related to Fenrir's very wise words. Java! Wurm runs on Java, so surely it will suit my/our purposes.

But why Java? Because they have tutorials, written by themselves and hosted on their own website, rather than by some third party. Plus it uses txt files to write its code, which means I dont have to mess around with some advanced programming program. I think I'm saved, but since I'm very tired now, my judgement is impaired, so I'll have to recheck it out tomorrow.

[Salamander]

If you've played wurm, you'll know something very important.  Java sucks ass 3D games (Although, it may just be Rolf's crappy code).

[Mephisto]

It also uses OpenGL. I remember getting OGL errors nearly every time I played it.

This wasn't anything to do with bad code, Intel is probably on the payroll of M$ and puts more support into DirectX than OGL.

[ March 07, 2008: Message edited by: Mephisto ]

[Red Jackard]

I think Java might be the reason for the horrible FPS in Wurm... it looks and runs worse than professional games.

[Kagus]

Java is crap under any circumstances.  The Java 3D games and the Java 2D games that I've played were all horribly handled and took far more resources than they should need.

And coupled with that, you need the special Java player, which spends all of its time hogging your CPU by checking for updates constantly.

Okay here'e the scoop.  Just had a little chat with my dad as to what programming language he would suggest for a group of inexperienced hopefuls who want to program a game (he stated that it would have to be an inexperienced group to want to do that, as an experienced programmer would be terrified by the magnitude of programming a game).

He's given us two options.  If we want the game to span multiple platforms (Linux, Mac, etc.), we have one choice,  C++.

However, although C++ is indeed powerful and can allow you to make something with a lot of features and that runs fast, you've really got to know what you're doing, otherwise you'll program yourself into oblivion in a few minutes.  You can, quite easily, crash your machine with a single poorly-written routine.

He recommends C#, which is much easier on the fresh programmer, but can only run under Windows and may possibly run a bit slower than C++.  It will prevent holes in the programming from appearing or at least ruining your comp.

He considered Java, but he said that he doesn't know how it works with games.  I can only speak from experience, but every Java game that I've come across (be it 2D or 3D) has been horrible.  I would not recommend it.