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Author Topic: Thief series  (Read 3772 times)

Puzzlemaker

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Thief series
« on: May 01, 2008, 10:49:00 pm »

Never played em.

Tried to get the third one.

It wouldn't run on my computer.

...Are they worth it to figure it out?  I managed to get the third one to work -sorta-, but from what I played it wasn't too enjoyable.

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Keiseth

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2008, 10:57:00 pm »

I had Thief III for my old Xbox. Very, very good game. Starts off a little slow but it gets amazingly awesome. The orphanage is the best place I've ever seen in a game. Gave me nightmares.

All that, and I hear Thief II is better.

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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2008, 11:00:00 pm »

Bleh, I should try getting it to work then.

Although like playing games in the right order.

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Kagus

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2008, 11:03:00 pm »

You need Thief to run well if you're going to run it at all.  I can heartily recommend the first in the series, but I haven't played the second one so I can't speak of it from experience.

I also never got as far as these other blokes in Thief III, but I enjoyed it just the same.  Sneaking up on people and calmly plucking their coinpurse off their belt is quite fun, especially once they figure out it's gone.


*looks down*
"What?  But it was here a moment ago..."

*looks back up and continues walking*

Everybody in the Thief series has short-term memory loss.  Helps thieves out immensely.

Keiseth

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2008, 11:05:00 pm »

Half the fun I had with Thief III was just causing general chaos. I ran around the town for hours, setting elaborate traps. My favorite ever is the bottle of oil, and the edge of a pier. They chase you and splash. Failing that, a flaming arrow...

I killed one poor guard by accident trying to get him to slip into an open grate in the ground. It looked like he slammed his head into the stone and died.

Thief II supposedly had some better items though, for movement and what not. I think you had arrows with ropes tied to them, but I can't recall for certain.

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Mephisto

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2008, 11:08:00 pm »

Thief 2 is fun. It's not like games you all are probably familiar with. In this game, you're the guy hiding in the shadows with a blackjack, sword, bow, and the clothes on his back. The guards walk around in armor and carry longswords.

You can't rush in with guns blazing... err, sword swinging. You fail the very first mission if you kill anyone. Also, it's near impossible to take out three guards who know you're there.

Like the title of the game states, you're encouraged to stuff everything that's not nailed down into your pants.

Wow, three people posted before I finished with this. In regard to the above post, there are actually seven types of arrows. The one you're referring to is called the rope arrow or vine arrow. Yes, there are two types of arrows that allow you to climb stuff.

[ May 02, 2008: Message edited by: Mephisto ]

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Kagus

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2008, 11:08:00 pm »

Yeah, Thief I and II both had rope arrows.  Bloody pain most of the time, but they could be quite handy at others.  You had to shoot them into wood, and if there happened to be a tiny little ledge sticking out underneath what you were shooting at, the arrow would let off about three inches of rope.  Not exceedingly useful under such circumstances.


However, you didn't have climbing glvoes in the first Thief.  The only way to scale a wall would be if there was a chunk of wood near the top that you could plunk a rope arrow into.

DJ

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2008, 03:27:00 am »

I only played Thief I, and I must say it's one of the best games I've ever played. It's especially fun when you try to do your mission without killing anyone.
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Kagus

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2008, 03:29:00 am »

I remember playing that one temple mission where you're in disguise...  You can actually smack people without getting caught doing it.  Just pick up a hammer (there are tons of them lying around), and throw it at someone.  They'll yowl in pain, make some comment, and keep walking.  Repeat as desired, but make sure to not actually kill anyone.

McDoomhammer

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2008, 04:36:00 am »

The recent discussion has forced me to get back into the games.  I reinstalled Deadly Shadows recently and played that, then I learned of the Thief 2X project and am part way through that.  I think once I'm finished I will have to reinstall Thief and play through the whole series- not for the first time.  That should give some indication of how good these games are.

Thief 3 was made by Eidos after the original developers, Looking Glass Studios, folded.  They did a good job... overhauled the engine and produced something that both looks gorgeous and is recognisably a Thief game.  It has flaws- some of the additional features aren't that great, and I think they broke some of the tools, for example, but they're forgiveable.  In particular, the Shalebridge Cradle level is masterfully done and you'll hear about it a lot- PC Gamer UK even ran a several page article about *just that level*.  But mostly forgiveable because it's an impressive achievement to produce something that is recognisably a Thief game.

The first two games are definitely worth tracking down.  While the older graphics can't compare to Deadly Shadows, you'll find that in a very short time, it doesn't matter.  They create atmosphere by the truckload; each level is filled with little details, both aural and visual, that bring the game world to life and force you to smile grimly at it or shiver in horror, like overheard conversations or the notes and diaries scattered around.  It immerses you, and you find yourself buying into the game- sure, you *could* probably take a lone guard, but I can practically guarantee that when you come face to face with one unexpectedly and he jumps back in surprise and raises his sword, you're going to be too scared to do anything but run like hell and cycle frantically through your inventory for an escape tool, hoping to find a safe spot or take him out before he can alert all his friends.

The levels are all huge and filled with stuff to find.  As well as loot, each has at least one secret hidden in it, which bring up a little message and satisfying sound when you do.  Each also has its own distinct feel; there are mansions and temples, city streets and tombs, etc etc.  Some are straightforward steal-everything-that-isn't-nailed-down affairs; some start off simply but quickly build to the realisation that something is very, very wrong; one is filled with awesome Indiana-Jonesesqe traps.  And every so often you find one whose flavour is horror- I'm still scared of one of the Cathedral levels.  All are woven into a similarly immersive storyline, drily narrated by Garret, with each game exploring one of the big organizations in the game world, be they magical or steampunk.

They're also very replayable.  Partly due to size- there are dozens of possible routes through each level, and you probably won't see everything first time.  Plus each has three difficulty settings, which provide additional goals, more and differently placed enemies, and sometimes open up additional areas or alter the levels slightly to keep you on your toes.  Oh, and they're only roughly mapped- unless you manage to steal a better map, you have to make do with Garret's scribbles and your compass, which is as it should be.  (It drives me crazy how Hitman gives agent 47 a map which shows the exact layout of everywhere he goes complete with real-time location and facing of every single person there.  How is that supposed to be possible?  Thief instead has you lurking in shadows waiting to see if a guard patrols this hallway, crouching in a hiding place listening to the approaching footsteps of a suspicious guard, and listening at doorways for clues to what's behind them.)

The equipment builds to a sizeable collection of cool gadgets; my perennial favourite are flash bombs, emitting a blinding light to buy you a few seconds.  There's also expoding things when you need to do a lot of damage or create a distraction, water arrows that let you put out torches (or clean up bloodstains...), gas arrows for quiet knockouts at a distance, various mines, potions for long falls, and a few stranger things.

There are downsides- mostly that the AI and engine have their limits, but you have to expect that from games as old as this.  Neither is by any means shabby, and they're more than made up for by the scripted events, and even unspeakably cool moments that emerge without the need for being scripted- for example, jumping right over the heads of two guards to get into the window of your own heavily-guarded second-storey apartment, with them none the wiser.  (Of course, you're free to climb up the fire escape around the back instead if you want.)

tl;dr:  They're awesome.  Play them.

[ May 02, 2008: Message edited by: McDoomhammer ]

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Jusal

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2008, 09:58:00 am »

The series are certainly worth trying out (read: Playing through). The thiefy gaming style may take a while to get used to, but it's really satisfying to sneak around a mansion full of guards, all unaware of your tafferous presence.

I recommend playing through the series in order as Thief 2 pretty much starts where the first one ended and assumes that you know the basics. Thief 3 doesn't require you to know the plots of the earlier games, but contains many references to them, which makes the gaming experience more satisfying if you've played the prequels.

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Earthquake Damage

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2008, 04:10:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Mephisto:
<STRONG>You can't rush in with guns blazing... err, sword swinging. You fail the very first mission if you kill anyone. Also, it's near impossible to take out three guards who know you're there.</STRONG>

Lies!  Practice a bit and you can take out any number of swordsmen, provided you have enough room to dance (more guards require more room).  You still botch the attempt occasionally, but it gets pretty easy.  Haunts are still a challenge, though.  And bowmen are disgusting.  Corners are your only chance there.

It's generally more fun to play without alerting anyone to your presence, but if you're in the mood to buckle your swash, it's quite doable.

I should add, I suppose, that you indeed are not allowed to kill anyone...  in most missions...  at Expert difficulty.  You can generally kill anyone with a weapon at Hard and anyone at all at Normal.

I should also add that Thief 3 is a different story.  I never figured out the trick to melee fighting with that thrice-damned dagger.

quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>The only way to scale a wall would be if there was a chunk of wood near the top that you could plunk a rope arrow into.</STRONG>

More lies!  The art of crate (among other things) stacking can get you all sorts of places without a rope.  Rope arrows are the more convenient mode of vertical transportation of the two.

[ May 02, 2008: Message edited by: Earthquake Damage ]

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McDoomhammer

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2008, 04:47:00 pm »

Also, rope arrows work on earthen surfaces too, and the vine arrows in thief 2 work on all of the above and metal grates.

The dagger in Shadows was actually one of the changes I liked, as it makes much more sense for Garret to carry and I was never into taking the enemies in Thief on  on their terms. I rarely kill at all, in fact, even if I'm not playing Expert level.  Actually, I did once try mercy-killing certain characters, but that tripped the mission fail condition.  For the sake of those that have not played, I won't go into detail.  Players can probably guess.

[ May 02, 2008: Message edited by: McDoomhammer ]

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"KILL, KILL, KILL! NOTHING SHALL STAND BETWEEN US AND THE CEREAL BAR!"
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Kagus

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2008, 12:02:00 am »

There's just something about backstabbing that can't be replicated with a blackjack.  I never really got into swordfighting in the first Thief (mainly because I wasn't really that good at it), and the added ability to backstab was quite appreciated when Thief III rolled around.  

As for crate stacking...  Eek.  You must really have been determined to get to that ledge where you could look out over nothingness.  Crates are evil creatures that lurk in dark corridors and plot against you, just waiting for the perfect  moment to tie you up and prick you to death with their splinters.

Hammers, on the other hand...


Heh, I still remember the first "real" mission in Thief.  After successfully getting in, I opened up that lovely looking box (which, being in a basement/sewer, could only hold the most priceless of jewels) and found myself holding a flowerpot.  In a stone room.  After having forgotten the "drop item gently" key.

Man that was loud.

Earthquake Damage

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Re: Thief series
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2008, 01:00:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>and the added ability to backstab was quite appreciated when Thief III rolled around.</STRONG>

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?

You can backstab in the first two.  You don't get a fancy animation for it, but any strike to an clueless opponent deals something like five times normal damage.

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