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[Neruz]

Just delete the Goblin civilisation from the entities_standard.txt

[Walshy]

I thought I was safe from the evil orcs behind my 15 rows of stone-fall traps. I really did.

[Neruz]

Dontcha love [trAPAVOID]?

[Skid]

Well it isn't the orcs that got me this time, it was those freaky wolf spiders.  I had completed the perimeter wall in the first summer when a pack comes charging at my fort and across the drawbridge.  The lever was pulled just in time to dump the second spider in the moat, but the first makes a beeline for the deepest bowels of my fort.  Epic battle ensues in an empty storage room, an axedwarf (My main carpenter), mechanic, and two dogs go down before a wrestler (craftsdwarf and furnace operator) manages to hold it down long enough for the last axedwarf to smash it against the wall and his war dog to tear it apart.

I'm still sealed in at the moment with two more spiders lurking out there.  Only fun can come of this.

[Kelbin]

I been trying to make my own orc species, but i can't get them to war. (atleast that what it says on embark since there is no red line near their names)

Is there anything wrong here?

Entity:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[ENTITY:MURDERING]
   [CREATURE:ORK]
   [trANSLATION:GOBLIN]
   [DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_WHIP]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_WAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MACE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
      [AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
      [AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PIKE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HALBERD]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_LONG]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MAUL]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_GREAT]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCOURGE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_FLAIL]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MORNINGSTAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCIMITAR]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CHAINMAIL:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_LEATHER:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_CAP:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_MASK:UNCOMMON]
   [GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS_LOW:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_GREAVES:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LOINCLOTH:COMMON]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_SHIELD]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_BUCKLER]
   [SIEGEAMMO:ITEM_SIEGEAMMO_BALLISTA]
   [TOY:ITEM_TOY_AXE]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_GIANTAXEBLADE]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_ENORMOUSCORKSCREW]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_SPIKEDBALL]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_LARGESERRATEDDISC]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_MENACINGSPIKE]
   [INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_DRUM]
   [CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
   [CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
   [CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:NAME_BATTLE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:NAME_SIEGE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:ROAD:NAME_ROAD]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:TUNNEL:NAME_TUNNEL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BRIDGE:NAME_BRIDGE]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WALL:NAME_WALL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:EVIL]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:DOMESTIC]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:FLOWERY]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:HOLY]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:PEACE]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:NEGATOR]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:GOOD]
   [STONE_PREF]
   [OUTDOOR_FARMING]
   [USE_EVIL_PLANTS]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PACK]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PULL]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_MOUNT]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PET]
   [USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]
   [USE_MISC_PROCESSED_WOOD_PRODUCTS]
   [EQUIPMENT_IMPROVEMENTS]
   [ABUSE_BODIES]
   [SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:WAR:512]
   [RELIGION_SPHERE:WAR]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:GOOD:0]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:EVIL:512]
   [FRIENDLY_COLOR:5:0:1]
   [DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:CITY]
   [liKES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:CITY]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE_DETAILED]
   [CAN_HAVE_MILITARY_SITE_LEADER]
   [START_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
   [START_BIOME:ANY_GRASSLAND]
   [START_BIOME:ANY_SAVANNA]
   [START_BIOME:ANY_SHRUBLAND]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_WETLAND:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_DESERT:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_FOREST:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_OCEAN:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_LAKE:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:MOUNTAIN:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SAVANNA:3]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:1]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:2]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:2]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:2]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]
   [MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
   [START_GROUP_NUMBER:10]
   [MAX_POP_NUMBER:10000]
   [MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
   [BEAST_HUNTER]
   [SCOUT]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CARPENTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BOWYER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCUTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ENGRAVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MASON]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_CARETAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_TRAINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FURNACE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WEAPONSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARMORER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BLACKSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:METALCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_CUTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_SETTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:STONECRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LEATHERWORKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISHERMAN]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_CLEANER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:COOK]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BREWER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LYE_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOOD_BURNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MECHANIC]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_ENGINEER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:PUMP_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARCHITECT]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:BRIDGE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
   [ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:LYING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:VANDALISM:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:THEFT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:ASSAULT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]

Creature:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CREATURE:ORK]
   [NAME:ork:orks:orkish]
   [TILE:'O'][COLOR:7:0:0]
   [GLOWTILE:'"'][GLOWCOLOR:4:0:1]
   [GENPOWER:2]
   [DAMBLOCK:1]
   [EVIL]
   [INTELLIGENT][liKES_FIGHTING]
   [BONECARN]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
   [BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
   [ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
   [CHILD:12][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
   [SIZE:7]
   [FAT:3]
   [EQUIPS]
   [MUNDANE]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [LAYERING:40]
   [MAXAGE:70:150]
   [SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [PERSONALITY:ANGER:25:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:50:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:0:60:100]
   [PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:40:90]
   [PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:25:50]
   [PERSONALITY:MODESTY:0:40:90]
   [PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:25:50]
   [PERSONALITY:ACTIVITY_LEVEL:0:40:100]

[Raz]

Replace [INTELLIGENT] with [CAN_CIV] and [CAN_LEARN]. [INTELLIGENT] implies those two, plus [CAN_SPEAK]. Because the current version is bugged (i.e. creatures make peace way too often if they have the ability to communicate), [CAN_SPEAK] often leads to peaceful civs.

[Kelbin]

Heh, it works, thanks alot.

So i'm guessing the reason goblins war so much is because of the snatcher tag?

[Zaranthan]

Aye. Babysnatchers are permanently at war with non-babysnatchers. Unfortunately, that tag makes them insist on trying to, well, snatch your babies before they'll bother sieging, and there's no way to bypass that stage. So you can either have guaranteed war with a non-speaking civ in the first summer, or guaranteed war with a speaking civ after a few years.

You can also add CAN_SPEAK after embarking, and that usually gets you a war with named orcs, but the timing is tricky, and by the time you find out you did it wrong, you've gone through the ever-exciting motions of starting yet another fort that won't go anywhere.

[Rockphed]

When I added [can_speak] to my orcs, they decided to start trading with me.  After two of their caravans came and went, I removed [can_speak], and they stopped coming altogether for a few years.  I am perfectly fine with only killers and squad leaders having names, so I don't mind them not speaking.

[Neruz]

We really need a [WARLIKE] tag, or perhaps a [ENTITY_ENEMY:MOUNTAIN] tag.

[Raz]

I'd rather have Toady fix the problem and not use cheap solutions like that, to be honest. Takes away the randomness.

[Neruz]

Being able to set races as [WARLIKE] or [PEACEFUL] and being able to say "Race X will try to war with Race Y at any available opportunity" would be a perfectly acceptable solution. What's wrong with being able to set an entity type as being warlike, peaceful or having racial enemies? Those are all pretty standard fantasy tropes.

[Rockphed]

Personally, I would be okay with warlike and peaceful tags to determine how often an entity goes to war.  I think Toady wants to have all wars arise from how the Civ's interact, rather than through forced interactions.

For instance, I suspect that, in the future, we will have wars started because a snatched child becomes a child snatcher, snatches the princess when she is almost an adult, and marries her shortly thereafter.

[Rysith]

[WARLIKE] and [PEACEFUL] would be good tags, I think, as well as finer control over how different entities handle diplomacy. Right now, civs are far too willing to forgive past wrongs and make peace, and never go to war over things other than ideological conflicts: There aren't wars over resources, plunder, honor, greed, or Because We Can. Wars that do start tend to end very quickly, either with the defender crushed or with the attacker giving up after a few losses and the defender not retaliating.

In my mind, Orcs are classic fantasy barbarians: Large, strong, tribal, fiercely loyal to each other, and wanting nothing more than to plunder the civilized world to prove its inferiority. They aren't the kind of group that would make peace with a human civilization just because some of their raids failed, they would be more likely to press on to avenge the fallen. They might accept a human surrender, though, assimilating the humans into their culture and using them to fuel their next conquest. The closest to that that I can come right now is removing [CAN_SPEAK], unfortunately.

[Earthquake Damage]

In my mind, Orcs are classic fantasy barbarians: Large, strong, tribal, fiercely loyal to each other, and wanting nothing more than to plunder the civilized world to prove its inferiority. They aren't the kind of group that would make peace with a human civilization just because some of their raids failed, they would be more likely to press on to avenge the fallen. They might accept a human surrender, though, assimilating the humans into their culture and using them to fuel their next conquest. The closest to that that I can come right now is removing [CAN_SPEAK], unfortunately.

I always thought they were intentionally designed as savage warmongers so players would have an easily identifiable enemy.  If it looks like an orc, you can freely kill it without consequence.  You don't have to consider the morality of your actions either, because the entire race is evil.  They're an excuse for good old-fashioned hack'n'slash adventures.