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In the form of a MU* (as has already been tried)

4 (4.3%)

Empire building browser-based game, using the Frost and Flame engine or making it from scratch

10 (10.9%)

Adventure RPG browser-based game, using the Dragon Knights engine or making it from scratch

4 (4.3%)

A dungone crawler or maybe cooperative fortress builder client-based game using the Eclipse engine (would be real time, and have better graphics than browser-based games)

25 (27.2%)

Cooperative fortress building browser-based game, with traditional DF top-view 2D tiles

45 (48.9%)

a deviant of the cooperative fortress building browser-based game, were the tiles are grouped into bigger "sections"

3 (3.3%)

Other (propose it in the thread please)

1 (1.1%)

Total Members Voted: 92

[winner]

the problem that I had with it is that once she's done that she just removed everybody who might be able to stop her.

[qwertyuiopas]

Some few people might play to build up their characters WITHOUT killing everything.

What about letting each user have one "main" character who can optionally escape death by going into a one week(month?) long coma, protecting them from further harm, excluding insta-death such as by lava.

They would also take a penalty to their stats, doubled for each legendary they have, and people can take their stuff to prevent the legendart dwarf in artifact armor from simply attacking again with their armor's bonuses to do the damage.


Of course, such a feature can be disabled in a fortress set to hardcore mode.

[webadict]

So, if there were other modes, what would be the benefits of doing them? There can't be much. Maybe only adamantine on hardcore fortresses. I think this would help newbies play though.

[qwertyuiopas]

Well, since the old days of 2D, it has been my dream to, as an adventurer, go to some undeveloped cliff face and dig in, as a one-person fortress with adventure mode controls, but the problem with ultra-legendary greifers is that they could go kill me, or you leave a fort with a very advanced dwarf only to be drawbridge-crushed in a noobtrap of the next fortress you try to join.

That is why we need some mechanic that punishes greifers while allowing long term players to keep their dwarves.

[winner]

make goblins controllable and it impossible to attack a friendly creature? A solution to the problem of drawbridge smashes would be to have a dwarf either be moved out of the way or rigt on top of it. I do not know how to defend against a flood room or magma.

[webadict]

How/why would drawbridges be implemented? They're a waste of space. I think people are assuming this online game will be Multiplayer DF Online. Folks... It will not. It will be a game solely based on DF.

Who's to assume that everything in DF will be in this game? Stop! Let's work on things that we KNOW will be in this game, such as combat, movement, and digging. We're still in design phase. We don't even have a working model and drawbridges are not likely to even be in it.

Plus, since it's turn-based, I doubt you'll be crushed by a drawbridge...

P.S. No drawbridges. And kill all the dwarves.

P.P.S Can a lone dwarf start a fortress? Never mind, let's work on one fortress first.

[winner]

will it have the same floor setup? or will you have to have a plausible amount of material between layers. I like the non dwarf fortress way because it is more intuitive and it would make it so you could build walls from the layer above and below (by necessity, how else could you get floors of a specific material).

[qwertyuiopas]

Turn based, or even tile based are hard, impossible, awkward, or unse un-friendly in a simple internet browser.

Sure, they could be done, but it would make the game only even playable to about 10 or so hardcore DF fans, and that will make it highly improbable to get more than 2 users on at a time.

Users could tolerate turn based OR tile based in an internet browser, but few could tolerate both.
Add to that the complexity of DF, or even a fraction of it, and you have a game that will die from inactivity.


Maybe I am wrong, but the average user will only tolerate so much...

A java based roguelike inspired tile MMO with a turn once each second would work, but HTML is too static.

Just curious, but how many browser based games have you ever played?
In my small(a few games currently being played) experience, users "like" a sense of security(a 99% chance of nothing too bad happening while they are gone, at least initially, and no requirement to rebuild from NOTHING afterwards) and often they also would like times where they can do nothing, allowing for other online activities, as well as times where they can do a lot quickly(such as just after logging on), but whatever happens, people like options, and the ability to only HAVE to play 5 minutes a day(or even take a break for a week) or play a whole 6 hours in a day if they want, with few consequences of their schedules either way.

Bottom line:
-non DF obsessed users need:
--secuirity
--wide range of time lengths to play
--a second chance when they "die" so they don't los everything
-An internet browser is bad for roguelike turn based stuff
-(but okay for resource(energy,food,other) based systems


But most importantly, you can continue with this any way and still get somewhere, but with fewer satisfied users.

[webadict]

Are you saying that there are other people not obsessed with DF on the internet!?!

Now, seriously, there are plenty of both tile-based and turn-based browser-based games. A lot of turn-based games are MMOs too, though you don't see too many tile-based ones.

And online DF would not nearly be as complex, as most of the complexity of DF is due to the number of players controlling the number of dwarves being uneven, plus the interface makes it tough. Adventure mode is very easy, which is tile based AND turn-based, though not multiplayer.

By the way, you forget that losing is fun.

[Poltifar]

Its true that many players like a 'safe-mode' feature of some sort, but I think that would only be an optional thing ounce we actually get the basic game working well enough.

For drawbridges, lava, and other fluids and stuff, I doubt we'll be able to get to such a complexity, although it could be nice if we do...

Oh and why would we make it turn-based? I thought we had agreed on energy based, and turn-based is waay to annoying in a browser

[Fenrir]

Are you saying that there are other people not obsessed with DF on the internet!?!

I wouldn't worry about making this game attractive to those people. Shouldn't this be for the Dwarf Fortress community alone?

[winner]

Yes about the energy system, though walking probably shouldn't take any energy unless you are wounded. Otherwise it cuts down on exploring and removes some of the fun.

What do you think of the idea of a coordinate grid system so that you could be told easily where somebody is.

[webadict]

Its true that many players like a 'safe-mode' feature of some sort, but I think that would only be an optional thing ounce we actually get the basic game working well enough.

For drawbridges, lava, and other fluids and stuff, I doubt we'll be able to get to such a complexity, although it could be nice if we do...

Oh and why would we make it turn-based? I thought we had agreed on energy based, and turn-based is waay to annoying in a browser

I was under the assumption that combat was turn-based (slightly), thereby combining the two.
Of course everything is energy-based outside of that, with certain aspects of combat being energy-based too.

Yes about the energy system, though walking probably shouldn't take any energy unless you are wounded. Otherwise it cuts down on exploring and removes some of the fun.

What do you think of the idea of a coordinate grid system so that you could be told easily where somebody is.

Walking should take no energy regardless of wounds.

And yes, a coordinate system would be nice.

Are you saying that there are other people not obsessed with DF on the internet!?!

I wouldn't worry about making this game attractive to those people. Shouldn't this be for the Dwarf Fortress community alone?

For now. Maybe it will also attract people to DF.

[Poltifar]

Well my plan for the database was for tiles to have coordinates to identify each one anyways, so all we would have to do is allow the player to see that info and we have a coordinate grid system.

And yes, the combat is semi-turn based, but by 'turn' I don't mean 'each player gets to choose an action every turn', but more DF style random actions, that are very quickly calculated by the server according to the player's combat settings, so it wouldn't actually be played turn-by-turn and wouldnt take much time or require both players to be active or even online...

[webadict]

Quite. I figured as much. Sorry about the confusion.

I'm still confused about what the basic UI would be. I did like the one posted a bit ago.

Haha, it was by you.

Ok, I liked the combat idea. As for the interface, here's a rough idea of how the movement interface page could look like (other pages would have very similar layouts, only 5 and 6 would be different):

---|===3====|
_1_|---4----|
   |####    |
 2 |#5##  6 |
   |####    |
   |        |


1. Log in button if currently not logged in, or account name or something like "Welcome, [account name here]!" if already logged in, as well as server name/status/etc...
2. Non-game links, like Home, Index, Help, About, Credits, Wiki, Forums, etc...
3. Game title+maybe graphical art, just decorative, shouldnt take up much space.
4. Game-related tabs, such as links to Inventory screen, Status screen, Equipment screen, etc...
5. The tiles, were the player is in the center tile and 9x9 tiles around him are visible (maybe not 9x9, we'll just have to see what works best)
6. In-game statuses, such as energy, health, food bar, weight carried, etc... (only the most important stats, the rest such as specific skills are listed in the Status screen). Also, in 6 too, we would have options such as 'dig' and 'sleep' and other very used commands, so that the player doesnt have to keep switching screens when he needs to use these commands.

I think 6 should also contain the movement arrows, with some sort of diagram, such as the one I mentioned earlier:

NW N NE
W     E
SW S SE
[Checkbox] Go until stopped
[Number box] Go this many steps in direction


Something so the user wouldn't have to scroll to see each time.
Also, below 4, certain game events should be displayed, such as attacks or other notices.

When a dwarf sleeps in a fortress, they should go back to their room instantly, if they have one.

Anything else?