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Author Topic: Incursion  (Read 125499 times)

x2yzh9

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #375 on: September 18, 2009, 03:11:31 pm »

Yeppers, cant wait for DF. Most of the sections are greened out, only a few moar to go.

rickvoid

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #376 on: September 21, 2009, 12:43:37 am »

Ugh. I've gotta wait another year for a new version now?

At this rate, I'll be teaching my as-yet-unborn Daughter to play this game when we get a new release.  :'(
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getter77

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #377 on: September 21, 2009, 07:41:12 am »

Ugh. I've gotta wait another year for a new version now?

At this rate, I'll be teaching my as-yet-unborn Daughter to play this game when we get a new release.  :'(

Heh, start by getting her one of those D&D shirts for the little ones, that have their starting stat rolls!
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0x517A5D

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #378 on: October 13, 2009, 03:36:54 pm »

Anybody else playing these days?

I'm bored with DF right now, and have gotten heavily into Incursion.

I really like that the end-goal enemy is far from the most powerful monster type in the game.  Up through my first win I never even saw a dragon.  I was quite surprised when I did finally encounter one.

I've been running Rogues mostly, often starting as Warrior just to get the oils of transformation.

I go with spiked chain almost exclusively, despite having to use a feat to get it.  They rock so hard -- they are reach weapons, up-close weapons, and can be used if you're grappled.  And they entangle on crit, or 1 in 3 non-crit.  +4 to trip attempts.  Great Cleave with a reach weapon is scary strong.

I've been trying to get a dual-spiked chain character going, choosing human for the extra feats.  I haven't really succeeded though.  I imagine that Two-Weapon Tempest with spiked chains is godlike.

What's your favored build like?
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Kagus

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #379 on: October 13, 2009, 04:34:25 pm »

Didn't know that you could even do a dual-weapon spiked chain build.  Thought they had something special that prevented them from being used as a single-hand weapon.

Anyways, my "favorite" build would have to be weavecrafters, most of them tailored to become alienists later on.  I've written about my experiences with them earlier in this thread, and they are just about broken-level power if you can keep them alive long enough to start getting some levels.

In fact, what the hell...   I'll go ahead and say they ARE broken.  Deliciously so.


Otherwise, I like trying "unusual" builds.  Diplomats would be a favorite if they just worked properly, and characters with rogue-ish traits are very nice for their versatility (Incursion, unlike a lot of other RPG's, actually have a use for most of the rogue abilities, which makes them very interesting characters to play).

I like kobolds in theory, but I haven't really been able to find any class combos that work out in an entertaining fashion.  Except for my newly discovered class, of course...

Behold, the Kobold Batrider!

Gnomish warriors are also very nice.  Mercurial broadsword + enchanted arbalest + innate free movement + free feat for rapid loading of arbalest + racial bonus to using magical devices (WANDS!  WANDS!  WANDS!) + racial bonus to operating mechanical devices (allows you to disarm/set traps for extra XP, and gives you a synergy boost for picking locks) + natural favor bonus with Essiah (who will give you an extra feat instead of free movement) + small size (dodge bonus, and you no longer have to worry about crouching down in kobold warrens or cramped corridors) = EPIC ADVENTURER.

I'd picked up the feats that allow you to access your inventory without wasting a move, and then I'd just stock up on every wand I could find.  I had a whole arsenal of magical destruction waiting at my fingertips.  If I couldn't pincushion it with my arbalest or hack it with my sword, I could blow it away with any flavor of arcane death I so pleased.  And since wands are so light, I could carry mountains of the stupid things and not have to worry about placing them on my belt for quick access, since I had those feats.


Druids are fun now and again.  Nature Sight is very handy, as is being able to walk on lava.  And they've got some very fun spells as well.  Plus, shapeshifting is awesome.

I've never really gotten barbarians to work though...  They just keep dying off before they can get anywhere.  And melee-centric classes in general don't have a huge amount of staying power in the long run.  There are a lot of very nifty beasties that you do not want to get close to...

EDIT: Oh yes, and Marite necromancers or paladins.

0x517A5D

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #380 on: October 13, 2009, 07:52:25 pm »

Didn't know that you could even do a dual-weapon spiked chain build.  Thought they had something special that prevented them from being used as a single-hand weapon.

They do, kind of.  They're medium-sized weapons.  So a medium-sized character needs Monkey Grip (or Growth spell, or the Expansion psionic power) to wield them one-handed.  You also need Power Attack, which is Monkey Grip's prerequisite.  Plus the Exotic Weapon: spiked chain feat.  So only humans can do it starting at level 1, and they should start as warriors to get a free Weapon Focus feat, otherwise the dual-wield penalties really add up.  Also warriors get 1d4+1 oils of transformation, which really helps as even +0 spiked chains are rare.

You also want at least Two-Weapon Style to reduce the penalties.  Maybe Florentine Style as well.  Maybe Ambidexterity.  Expertise for sure.

Then you want Cleave and Great Cleave.  Knock Prone.  Improved Trip, if you want to use the +4 to trip that spiked chains have.  (It's usually safe to trip anyway, because the opponent is at range and doesn't have a reach weapon, so can't respond to the opportunity.)  Supreme Cleave, maybe, though that's just a damage bonus, and you don't need that against the swarms of weak opponents that are cleave-able.  Two-Weapon Tempest would be cool; I've never reached it.

It really warps the build.  No room for generalist feats like Sneaky or Loadbearer.

If you get a starting item: Gauntlets of the Powerful Grip, you can skip buying Monkey Grip and delay buying Power Attack.



Now a question: how do you deal with the gods?  I hate the evil gods, and I hate the good gods even more.  I can't stand behaving in a 'good' manner, or the chivalrous 'lawful' code.  I transgress without realizing it, or without even getting a choice.  (Particularly with attacks of opportunity.)  So I play nonreligious chars mostly.
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Kagus

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #381 on: October 13, 2009, 08:48:57 pm »

Although atheists do tend to have a simpler run of it, being godless will really come around and bite you in the butt if you can't handle everything yourself.

Being a good guy is a pain in the ass because of all the dickish behaviour the AI comes up with, but some of the good gods are actually nice enough to work with.  Stay the hell away from Immotian and Erich though, those guys are total buttholes.  And Xel is best left alone unless you *really* know what you're doing.

The Multitude used to be pretty much a sure thing, but a recent update gets them angry if you drink healing potions.  That really put a dent in their usefulness to you.  Still though, if you play it safe until you get some sort of vampiric or regenerative healing power going, they still make for a rather badass "deity".  Finding an altar can be a pain though.

But if you do find an altar to the Multitude, I strongly recommend you think about worshiping them.  Make sure to weigh your options though, because that 'drinking problem' can cause some major havoc in ways you don't want.  But who can say no to long-term demons bound to your will appearing at random intervals?  And receiving aid from them is totally killer.

Essiah is relatively nice, confined basically just to the standard rules of goodness.  She's got some nice boons for her faithful as well.

Xavias is another "good guy" who is relatively easy to keep happy.  He's nice for mages and other egghead characters who need to figure stuff out.  Basically the only things that tick him off are evil acts and the destruction of valuable or enchanted items.  Which, hopefully, you won't be doing too much of anyways.  But just be careful when blasting wands...

Only bad thing about him is that he has boosts that aren't very general in their usage.   Only certain types of characters can take advantage of them.

If you're going the selfish warrior route, you can't really beat Zurvash.  Only times he gets upset are when you show compassion or restraint, which shouldn't be too difficult considering the idiotic behaviour of most of the dungeon's denizens.  Sacrifices are easy to find as well.

Asherath seems relatively easy to deal with, but I've never tried him so I wouldn't know.


Abiding by godly laws adds an interesting dimension for experienced players and can be a little fun in itself.  The code of chivalry in particular can be a pain to work around, but you feel like you're really doing something by adhering to it.

Not that gods are strictly necessary, but it's nice to have a big and powerful entity watching your back in certain situations.  I had one paladin who lived and died three times thanks to Mara stepping in and bringing him back.  And I loved the little demonic fan clubs that pop up when you serve the Multitude.

The character I got the farthest with, however, was my alienist.  And he was godless.  The only god who will accept an alienist anyways is Kysul, and he's way too restrictive for my tastes.  No, I wanted the freedom to do what I wanted to do.  And if that meant obliterating the brains of that goddamn neutral grunt who rushed in to pick up the treasure I'd just liberated, then so be it.

Picking a god will inhibit you no matter who you choose.  Atheists are undoubtedly those with the most freedom.  However, when building a character, you have to decide which freedoms you will get the most use out of, and which ones you won't.  Try to think of it as just another step in creating your dude.


This list may prove helpful to you: http://incursion.wikidot.com/gods

cowofdoom78963

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #382 on: October 13, 2009, 09:32:04 pm »

You know what *REALLY* pisses me off about trying to be good? When you go to sleep and some neutral douche comes along and steals your armour. Of course in the eyes of Incursion I am the asshole for killing them to get it back.

But yeah, I know what to avoid to not be evil. Are there any specific actions you can take to make you good though? I just cant seem to find anything good my character can do...
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Kagus

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #383 on: October 14, 2009, 01:11:14 am »

Mostly, being good is determined by avoiding unnecessary bloodshed.  This means offering terms to creatures who are frightened of you and attempting to reason with sapient creatures and quell conflicts instead of fighting them.

In general, being a pansy.


Mind you, from what I can remember, the game will give you good grades just for trying, even if they refuse your offer.  It's still a much greater boost if it actually works though (offering terms to a frightened creature is normally your best bet for ranking up the good-guy points).

So yeah...  Getting rid of those goddamn neutrals is an evil act, and if you try to be a good guy you'll end up with even more of 'em wandering around.  Ain't it grand to be wearin' the white hat?


Oh yeah...  And one of your first goals should be to secure a semi-safe method of resting.  When I play, I generally won't slay my head down until I've got either the Light Sleeper feat or the Alarm spell (or, better yet, a companion to share watches with).  It's just not worth it to rest without proper precaution.  Hearthstones of Onanda would be awesome if they didn't weigh s'damned much.

0x517A5D

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #384 on: October 14, 2009, 02:35:18 am »

Neutral sentients are one of my main sources of the most necessary potions, ID scrolls, and the occasional ring.  How can I get those while remaining good?

I've only experimented with bartering enough to figure out how it works.  Now I just buy the occasional Bless spell.  Is there enough money in the game to buy much in the way of supplies from the neutrals?

How evil/chaotic an act is pickpocketing?

I know diplomacy and intimidation can both get neutral (and frightened hostiles??) to give me items.  Unless it's starting equipment, it seems.  If I pump those skills, can I eventually get good enough to get starting equipment?

What if my allies/pets slay a neutral?  I have the "don't blame me for allies' actions" option turned on.  Is it different if I order them to attack?



I've never yet been ambushed in my sleep.  I have used the occasional hearthstone or scroll of rope trick, but mostly I choose a location (dead end by preference), make sure that all rooms around it are cleared of hostiles, then use the listen skill.  Before I sleep, I will usually ascend to 20' or 30' if I'm deeper than that.

Mostly I just don't sleep much once I get deep down.  I sleep several times while researching items at the 20' library, since you can only do 8 or 10 before having to rest.  But after that, I just quaff healing and vitality potions.

I do understand being paranoid about it, because it's a Yet Another Avoidable Death.
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Kagus

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #385 on: October 14, 2009, 03:05:00 am »

Later on you'll be wishing you could take a nap now and again, and unless you seriously pump your listening skill (which is mildly pointless, all considering your build), you can't rely on it.  Ethereal vampire watermelons, for example, don't make too much noise.  Not that I'm aware of, anyways...   

Uggh, death by undead sentient produce.  Easily one of my most embarrassing.


Bartering is an interesting little system...  And I believe you can only work with neutral creatures, so you'd have to offer terms to a frightened hostile first.  By the way, "starting equipment" is an interesting term, as any item the creature has held for more than (8? 12? 24?) hours is considered "theirs".  This makes it highly annoying when you find some douchebag aranea wandering around with the +4 enchanted longsword you dropped while running away from a conflict, and when you ask them to give it back to you they say "Nuh-uh.  Mine!".

Pickpocketing is an evil act if you use it on anything other than an evil creature.  And it's always unlawful.  But, in general, I believe it's a relatively minor offense.  Still though, I recommend keeping away from it if it's against a god's moral code.  They get ticked off easily, and you do *not* want to be on their bad side.


But yes, if you want something from a neutral sentient while staying good, you'll have to either pay for it or ask very, very nicely.  One way of doing this is getting them to join you on your adventure and then asking them to give you whatever it is...  I think you get a bonus for asking a party member.  But starting equipment (AKA, "Mine!") you will have to pry from their cold, dead hands (ProTip:  Wanna stay good while still getting all their loot?  Get them to join your party and then get them killed by evil monsters!  They're dead now, but it was for a good cause.  Now grab those boots).

And as for money, yes.  There is an INSANE amount of money down there, which you will almost never have a use for.  I recommend only picking up gold coins, and then when you start finding platinum coins only take those.  Never pick up any lesser metals, as they're just dead weight.  And you'll find *plenty* of platinum coins, especially if you're good about getting those chests open.


If your allies/pets slay a neutral (which they have a disturbing tendency to do on their own), with the "don't blame me" option, nothing happens.  They don't get punished, you don't get punished.   This is pretty much the only way Hesani followers can ever leave the scene of a massacre with a clear conscience.  However, if it's on, you will be held responsible for all their actions.  Really...  Don't do this.  Party member AI is Artificial Stupidity.  Don't get blamed for what they do.

And, if I remember correctly (been ages since I played this), I don't think you get the evil eye for telling someone to rough up someone else.  Easy enough to find out though.

rickvoid

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #386 on: October 15, 2009, 10:30:55 pm »

Okay, trying to do the Kobold Batrider thing, and I can't figure out how to mount the damn Night Hunter. I've got 4 ranks in Ride (for a total of +10 to Ride checks) and the skill isn't coming up as an option in the "U" menu.

The help system is also being decidedly unhelpful. What am I doing wrong?
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Karlito

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #387 on: October 15, 2009, 10:40:58 pm »

Pressing [y] brings up a shitload of actions, one of which is mount.
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beorn080

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #388 on: October 15, 2009, 10:41:53 pm »

Alright, I have a problem with this. I am running Vista, 64 bit I think. When I try to play, the screen doesn't refresh unless I minimize it and bring it back up. Are there any fixes for that?
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Ustxu Iceraped the Frigid Crystal of Slaughter was a glacier titan. It was the only one of its kind. A gigantic feathered carp composed of crystal glass. It has five mouths full of treacherous teeth, enormous clear wings, and ferocious blue eyes. Beware its icy breath! Ustxu was associated with oceans, glaciers, boats, and murder.

0x517A5D

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #389 on: October 26, 2009, 04:32:51 pm »

A floating eye I hadn't even noticed just two-shotted me.  Gaze, paralysed; gaze, dead.


Messages:
The skeletal trooper is knocked from its feet! The skeletal trooper is knocked from its feet!
Attack: 1d20 (11) +15 = 26 vs. Def 10 + 3 know = 13 [hit]
Damage: 2d4+5 +2 PA = 12 bypassed Cov 10 = 0 +3d6 SA = 9
Bypassing its armor, you swing low, hitting the skeletal trooper.
The skeletal trooper's natural armor absorbs the attack!
Spot Check: 1d20 (1) +15 = 16 vs DC 20 [failure].
The skeletal trooper regenerates.
Fortitude Save: 1d20 (3) +5 base = 8 vs DC 14 [failure].
Floating Eyesocket's Damage: 1d8 = 2 Paralysis
A floating eyesocket gazes at you.
You find yourself unable to move! You find yourself unable to move!
Floating Eyesocket's Damage: 2d4 = 3 Pure Magic
A floating eyesocket gazes at you.
Fortitude Save: 1d20 (6) +5 base = 11 vs DC 13 [failure].
You die...


This was a really promising dual-spiked-chain warrior-rogue as described a few posts back.  She even found a +4 vampiric weapon that was immediately changed to a spiked chain.  So she didn't need to drink many healing potions.

Thoughts on how I can avoid this?  How can I increase my "+5 base" on the fortitude save?
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