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[Robsoie]

My pack is full of neat magic equipment that I can't sell, because of guild crap, and even if I could, he isn't even selling any Cure Disease potions.

About that, i'm wondering, will the shop change its item list from time to time, or is staying always the same from start to end as long as you're playing with the same character ?

[Frumple]

Start to end, yes. What you get at the beginning is what Ironbeard'll be selling at the end.

@ Omnomnoming: Rangers or druids are probably your best bet* short of perk luck (natural disease immunity, that one amulet) -- monks get disease immunity, eventually, sure, but they're quite possibly the worst class in Incursion right now, in terms of... everything, really. I've won with a monk (punchy orc), but it takes a bloody long while before they really start to get off the ground (but, being fair, once you're jumping all over the place and basically untouchable you do alright.).

Protip: Just say screw it and take a natural aptitude in Use Magic, then nuke everything to the ground with wands. Decent luck score and a high UMD and anyone can win, really. Mostly how my sole rogue victory managed it. Didn't hurt the couple of Bard victories, either. Wands get silly powerful, and with a decent luck score (Say 14+. Higher is, of course, better.) you're almost certain to be rolling in them. Can punch whatever doesn't need nuking.

*Just jack your wilderness survival up. Decent stat modifier and maybe a feat (or two... forget if there's something besides skill focus for WS. Probably.) and you'll be able to eat most corpses without having to worry about not meeting the DC. Worth note, a multiclass ranger 5/druid 6 gets delightfully ridiculous. Feral caster riding doombeast with all those nice extra ranger spells (like haste. Haste.)? Yesplease~ Or it might be 4/7, forget the exact combo. One of those two nets you dire regression before it's all said and done. And haste. Pretty sure rangers get detect monsters, too, and detmon is the absolute best spell in the game.

[Zireael]

This thread is full of goodness and things I didn't know, mostly because I never got anywhere far with Incursion due to various problems back in the times and due to lack of time now.

Choose, I could make a screenshot or two and I guess most people in this thread could (orc monk? lizardman monk? drow rogue? keep 'em coming!), the question is how to get them to you.

Oooh, and the main reason I registered here too:

Yes, i remember reading it took him 7 years to develop it.
And considering how in depth the game system is, it's a really impressive work for a single individual.

I hope it will gain in popularity, that' s a RL that really deserve to be in the top played ones.

Well, he did have some help from a ww, as there are comment conversations in the source code, where ww makes a fix or makes a change.  And then Julian comes in and adds his own comment and changes what ww did.

"ww" is Westley Weimer, better known for developing a tool known as WeiDU, which allowed the Baldur's Gate modding scene to get off.
Weimer was credited in the game manual on-site and in-game, I wondered why, and once I had access to the source code, all those "ww" comments cleared it up. I guess he is the main source of most "AD&D-isms" (coverage, weapon speed and the like).

An aside: as for 7 years, I've been working on Veins of the Earth for less than a year and I think by the time I reach 7 years of working on VotE, it'll be ahead of Incursion by a huge margin, mostly because we're using an existing engine

EDIT: Guys, is there interest in Veins of the Earth thread here?

[Reverie]

I'm confused, I thought this roguelike was dead. <.<

[Draco18s]

I'm confused, I thought this roguelike was dead. <.<

Nope, it just went open source.

[Robsoie]

Yes, it's now back alive

EDIT: Guys, is there interest in Veins of the Earth thread here?

You can create a thread to present it (there's none yet), i'm sure there will be interest once people know what it is about, there are lots of people playing roguelike on this board.

[Retropunch]

Yeah a VotE thread would be great, make sure to do a good explanation/screenshots/changelog though, as people will want to know why it's different and stuff.

[chooseusername]

Frumple: Can you compress the save files from now on, that you attach to bug reports.  The reason I ask is that I am on mobile broadband, and it all adds up 

[Frumple]

Ah, sure. Want me to go back and compress the ones I've done (so far) today?

[chooseusername]

Ah, sure. Want me to go back and compress the ones I've done (so far) today?

It would be appreciated, thanks!

[Frumple]

Will do. For those curious, what I've mostly been doing today (so far) is going back through my old commentary on mage* and druid spells and checking anything noted as buggy or oddly functioning. Some of it's been fixed or has changed behavior since I went through all that stuff, but it's a good starting point.

Currently up to forth level arcane spells, ha!

*Links go to pastebin dumps, for the interested. They're also on the old incursion-l google group and... possibly crossposted into the public one, I'unno.

[Rolan7]

Bluh, why does Maeve abandon my elf for killing a fleeing myconoid?  She's chaotic neutral/evil!  And they can't even accept terms.  The same action did knock me down from NG to true neutral, but I don't know why she'd mind.

I found out why my orcs weren't finding practically any items or gold, though, I had dumped luck 

Tanglefoot bags are just absurd, though.  "Don't ever use heavy armor" bags.  The wiki does warn that nimble fighters are more effective than heavy ones, but dang.  I've lost a few priests that way now.  I've looked up the counters now, but most require being specific classes or races.  Even when I did make the DC15 escape artist check, I usually failed the DC15 reflex save and just got stuck again!

It's just a huge change from 3.5e, where the main counter is a *strength check*, dexterity is penalized, and there's a -2 on attacks.  Here there's no strength check, you need to make a high reflex save every round just to act... that doesn't sound appropriate to me.  Reflex saves are for quick reactions, such as avoiding being glued to the floor in the first place.  Sure, heavy armor should make it hard to avoid that.  Once you're already covered in the stuff, though, it's a matter of breaking free through force (strength) or rogueish hijinks (escape artist).  And that's just supposed to be freeing yourself from the floor!

It's like tanglefoot bags here cover a warrior from head to toe in, not glue, but a mass of adamantine strands which must be quickly unraveled before one's arms are free.  And the strands rapidly rise from the floor to re-bind your arms every time you move.  It's... kinda dumb.

Eh, but I'm just frustrated at the game's difficulty right now.  It seems like everyone has an AC of 19+, and they can all hear my rogue with max points in move silently and a +2 to attack.  To be fair, I should have taken Weapon Finesse instead of Acrobatic, but I thought a stealthy rogue wouldn't have to max hitroll just to hit unaware targets.  Okay okay, the bonuses for sneak attacking are pretty nice, it's really just armored foes which are the problem then.  And armored foes are vulnerable to these tanglefoot bags, or my armor-penetrating hand crossbow (little damage, but as a drow I started with a bunch of poisoned bolts and poisons), or this stiletto I guess.

And as a stabby rogue I should simply be avoiding zombies and skeletons, I know    I should find wands or scrolls to deal with them.  (Screw lizardmen, too, and their natural armor!)

It wouldn't be a roguelike if level 1 characters didn't die to embarrassingly low-level enemies!  On the whole, I did get frustrated a lot over the past few days... because I keep playing, because it's fresh and kinda exciting.  I think I'm getting better.  (switching to no-deaths mode until the frustation wanes, though.  If my sneaky drow gets ambushed and OHKO'd again, I'd just be savescumming anyway)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.captainsnes.com/2003/10/02/395-hardcore-action-spoony-style/

Edit: I've kinda been building that post over several utterly different characters.  I have not been playing a drow rogue/priest of Maeve in heavy armor. Yet.
Edit2: And my tanglefoot troubles would have been solved by a few potions of dimension door, IE if my orc priests had more than 6 luck...

[Frumple]

Bluh, why does Maeve abandon my elf for killing a fleeing myconoid?  She's chaotic neutral/evil!  And they can't even accept terms.  The same action did knock me down from NG to true neutral, but I don't know why she'd mind.

I'd... well, I'd guess because it was a non-chaotic act. Somehow. Maeve doesn't like those. She's chaotic neutral/evil, yes, but the emphasis is on the chaotic more than the neutral/evil part.

And yeah, the early game counter to tanglefoot bags, is, ah. Probably that initial three dimdoor potions. Or being a gnome. Which... maybe? Start as a gnome priest of <something with a strength domain> to pick up Enlarge (go Zurvash, passion/pain/strength. Passion/pain is the best melee build domain choices.) or a Thaumaturgist for the same, then go heavy armor warrior with innate free action and large enough to manage decent shields and whatnot. Could also dip druid 3 for woodland stride. Or ranger, and get a nighthunter mount -- flying junk is immune to tanglefoot nonsense. Plain fighters are... well, they have one of the roughest times of any of the classes. They're pretty decent once they've got the equipment to deal with problems (like tanglefoot bags, or terrain in general, or heavily buffed casters, or [...]), but getting that point is rough.

E: *fistpump* Done with my initial pass of arcane spells! At least the ones noted as unstable several versions before Boss J's development stopped. And excepting Distance Distortion, which has some stacking/permanence issues I need to actually test out a bit, but... not tonight.

E2: Jeez, I had forgotten how ridiculous /produce flame/ is. It is sillily useful for a first level spell. Especially when your giant bat is machine gunning them at things.

[chooseusername]

E: *fistpump* Done with my initial pass of arcane spells! At least the ones noted as unstable several versions before Boss J's development stopped. And excepting Distance Distortion, which has some stacking/permanence issues I need to actually test out a bit, but... not tonight.

There's a wizard menu in the debug build btw, which if you're testing things systematically, might make things a little easier.

The only thing is that running the debug build may require visual studio installed or something.  Or it might not.  I can try and provide a build for the next version, if you're interested.

[Frumple]

Oh aye, I was using that constantly through the whole go. It's part of the normal game -- s'why there's an option to disable turning it on in the character generation options. Tremendously useful for testing things quickly, or just playing around with silly things, like clockwork berserkers or half-dragon kobolds.