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[Kagus]

"Wisdom" also counts as instinctual knowledge and willpower.  Having a high-will barbarian isn't nearly as strange as having a high-intelligence barbarian.

[McDoomhammer]

Re mining:  Really?  I was sure the cave-in percentage was independant on each dungeon level.  I will have to test this.

Continuing the deity themes above, I did toy with one for Mara- An elven priestess with a scythe and bow, a high diplomacy skill (which has to be taken through the natural talent feat since priests don't naturally have it), and the Beauty, Succor and Night spheres.  The idea was to be a character pretty much exclusively focused on taking out evil undead- and talking her way out of, charming or non-lethally disabling everything else (liberal use of sleep, charm, innate sanctuary, etc etc etc).  I didn't have much success- it might just be that it doesn't suit my play style, or simply that it's not very good.  For fighting undead, a blunt weapon would probably be better, but the Maran scythe is just cool.

Thoughts?

[BishopX]

I didn't have any trouble with killing corporeal undead with a great sword, my guess is it's the fact that a scythe is an exotic weapon and you're wasting feats on it, and getting diplomacy as a class skill. I decided to be Maran first, then chose to play a human specifically so I could get the diplomacy skill.

There are two issues you might also be running into as an elvish Maran:
1)Maeve, she's vindictive and it's not surviving the wrath of a god early on.

2)Elves and necromancy don't mix...so so the ability to raise your own might not be so hot.

That said I like the grim reaper motiff you've got going on.

I think a maran rogue would be cool, quell all the undead and kill everything else. Once you get Mara to respect you enough all undead become neutral, which is a serious plus for a rogue.

One slightly bugging issue with Mara is that she will periodically give you a revenant to help you out. This cause a rather frightening error message and the revenant is generated hostile to boot. This isn't quite so bad as Kysul, whose aggravate monster effect never wears off.

[McDoomhammer]

Actually, I wasted no feats on the scythe.  Priests are automatically proficient in the chosen holy weapon of their god- the scythe is Mara's.  However, the Diplomacy skill did cost a feat and maybe this concept would work better with a human; I picked an elf for the beauty aspect but I might experiment and see if a hoomin is more survivable.  

I steered clear of the undead-raising abilities and paths- it didn't fit my idea for the character.  Sure, Marites can raise undead without bad karma, but that doesn't mean they have to.  That said, I tend to be a loner and the character mght work better with undead or summoned aid.

I've noticed the revenant bug with one of my kobold monks.

The rogue idea- well, I won't say it won't work, but you will be severely limited.  Mara does not like killing things unnecessarily.  She'll give you credit for trying to quell opponents even if you fail, but too much death and she'll start decomposing you.  Also she dislikes evil acts so no stealing from or fighting neutral creatures.

[Kagus]

My Marite necromancer is having a heyday.  He's getting pretty good with diplomacy, and he recently called forth a bunch of skeletons to help him out (note:  do not cast animate dead around a bone delver!  They are inherently evil, and so you get a slap for raising them).  There are certain types of undead that only Marites can raise, so leaving out on the summoning of them isn't so hot of an idea.  I mean, hey, free troops with nice resistances who'll also watch over you as you sleep.  

The revenants are a problem from time to time, but with sufficient diplomacy you can still call them to your side.  I haven't gotten that far yet, so I just summon a few monsters to take him out for me.  I get the XP, and I don't get the wrath of Mara on my head.

It's kind of fun with the kind of sacrifices Mara accepts.  She'll only take the bodies of creatures you didn't kill, so it feels kinda like a divine duty wandering through the dungeon halls and picking up the corpses from various inter-dweller skirmishes so they can be brought to peace in Mara's embrace.  It's a good idea to clean up your own killings as well, so you don't accidentally try to sacrifice one of them.  I suggest piling them up in a graveyard somewhere, as that seems fitting.

[McDoomhammer]

Yes, it does have a nice feel to it.

I find it interesting that my elven Marite priestess turned undead as usual, whereas my human one had the command ability instead.

[Kagus]

Huh, that's odd.  I wonder why he could command the dead, seeing as he wasn't evil.

I've been messing around with ADOM (never played it before), so it might be a time before I get back to playing Incursion.   I'm currently playing a human farmer who I intend to keep out of the action and just growing plants for himself, and a trollish beastfighter who's just trying to find enough to eat (quite fun, really).

Followers of Erich don't really have a place in this version, what without the actual kingdoms and such.  I'll have to think about which god has an appropriate  worshiper in the works...

I mean, there's always the Ekliazeh-worshiping dwarven master smith, but that's kind of a tired subject and crafting doesn't have much use anyways.

I suppose you could go for an Immotian-worshiping inquisitor.  Human evoker with a specialty for fire magic and all that.

Other than that...  Dunno.

[BishopX]

Doomhammer,

The reason I think a rogue might work is that undead are their biggest weakness, and Mara kindly takes care of that for you. Yes you can't kill or steal from neutral creatures, but quelling undead should keep mara from getting too angry.

[Kagus]

Well, my Marite necromancer has been bugged to death.  Word of advice:  if you worship Mara, never ever ever take skull trap as a spell.

It scares (which goes against Mara's teachings) and attacks a creature without warning (a general no-no for good characters).  It also crashes the game, apparently.

I think what happened was that I set the trap off myself in order to save a goblin rogue from the effects (took me a few tries before I figured out how to keep that dimwit from walking on the trap to get that one useless short sword), and Mara got angry with me for scaring and damaging myself.  This apparently didn't sit well with the inner programming, and the game crashes soon after the trap is triggered.

Oh well, I'll just have to start another one.  And I'll need to remember to train up Appraise as well as Diplomacy...  Appraise is what's used when calming ethereal undead, not diplomacy (I guess you use it to "appraise" what's bugging the spirit, and thus treat it accordingly).

Pity though, he was doing quite well there for a bit.

[Kagus]

Post doubling. Just came across an interesting magic item, and thought of this.

Aiswin:
"Batman"
Human monk, lawful good or neutral.  Specialize in sneaking, climbing, and alchemy if you've got the spare points.  Get a cloak of the bat as soon as possible.  Attain blindfighting if possible, and the cloak will help with blindsight.  Use alchemical items such as flashbombs and smokebombs to aid you, if you take that route.  Bolas are nice, too.

Seeing in the dark is a bit of a problem though...  I don't remember if monks get to pick domains, but if they can then it's just a matter of picking the night domain from Aiswin.

[McDoomhammer]

No, they don't.

I got a cloak of the bat once, I've wanted to find one with a blind-fighting character (which several of my monks are) ever since  

[Earthquake Damage]

quote:Originally posted by BishopX:
<STRONG>Doomhammer,

The reason I think a rogue might work is that undead are their biggest weakness, and Mara kindly takes care of that for you. Yes you can't kill or steal from neutral creatures, but quelling undead should keep mara from getting too angry.</STRONG>

The Necrophysiology feat allows sneak attacks and critical hits on undead IIRC.  Once you've got that, the rogue's Achilles heel is constructs.

Be aware that you can add one level of mage to your rogue to get Scribe Scroll and, if you spend a feat, Brew Potion.  Add some Knowledge (Magic) (not sure how much is needed, though) and you should be able to create your own Restoration, Remove Curse, Cure Disease, and other scrolls/potions.  The skill point expenditure will gimp your thieving a bit, though.

My favorite rogue build is a gadgeteer.  Crank Use Magic (and optionally Bluff), Alchemy, Knowledge (Magic), and grab Scribe Scroll and/or Brew Potion (which requires a multi-class).  Work on rogue skills if you can, but focus on tool use.  It may not be the most effective build, but I find it pretty fun.  Hell, I can't beat the game with a more powerful build anyway, so why worry that it's weak?

[Earthquake Damage]

There's a new version as of yesterday.  Woohoo!  

[Kagus]

Well, at least it says they fixed the "is really something!" bug.  I was kinda hoping for more added content, however...

Ah well, work with what ya got.  Downloading.

[Dasleah]

Downloaded it a few hours ago. Having great fun being killed by everything. The only game that needs a starting walk-through more than DF is this game   :roll: