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[John Johnston]

I've constructed a full-scale test of this... and now I'm waiting as the magma supply tunnel fills up.  Very.  Very.  Sloooowly.   

(edit)  Still waiting for this stoopid thing to fill.  Possibly diverting the magma pipe around the donkey farm was a design flaw.

[John Johnston]

My first test of this has been a partial success.

The test rig I was using had one pipe of water and another pipe of magma above a large drop.  At the end of each pipe was a small area containing a hatch cover (1*7/7 water and 2*7/7 magma) sealed off by a floodgate.  One z-level below the pipes was a very large nickel-silver bridge.  The magma pipe also had a pressure plate set to trigger when the magma level went below 7/7; this floodgate opened the water hatch and simultaneously retracted the nickel-silver bridge.

In other words, when the hatch in the magma area was opened remotely, magma poured out onto the bridge below, and soon afterwards water fell onto the magma and the bridge retracted, so everything on the bridge fell downwards.

In practice, everything worked as planned, and a small amount of obsidian was formed on the bridge, however, I'd forgotten that the obsidian could be supported from above - it was connected to the roof, doh.  I'll need to move the bridge down a z-level and try again.  (22 ns blocks, ho-hum, this will take a while)

[Footkerchief]

If all you want is a cave-in trap, that's easy -- build a support next to a pressure plate, link them up, build a floor on top of the support that overhangs the pressure plate.  Supports collapse instantly -- they don't have a delay like bridges do.  Takes a while to reload, but it's satisfying, plus the game auto-pauses due to the cave-in when the trap springs.

[John Johnston]

The ultimate aim, I guess, is to get a cave-in trap which doesn't need reloading - whether this can do it will depend what happens when obsidian forms in a space which is above a bridge but unconnected to anything else.  I'm guessing it'll just trash the bridge, we'll see.   

[Doppel]

what you could do is have a room made of fire-safe bridges, and this room automaticly fills with magma. above it is a room always full of water. you link the floors to levers, and the top one drops the water an instant before the magma (by using diff quality mechanisms) and all this falls onto the gobbies. also, when the lever is pulled, the magma and water stop flowing.
then it's like the uber atom smasher...! i have got to try this out...

A better way imo (if i understood correctly) would be to make floor of the entry room out of bridges, beneath it is relative deep pit (say, 3 z levels deep). The pit is filled with some some water, above the entry room is another room of which the floors are also made of bridges, but this time magmasafe ones, obviously this room will be filled with magma. Link all the bridges up to one lever, when gobbos are into the entry room, switch it. I haven't tested it but i can imagine that the gobbos would fall into the water, directly followed with magma falling ontop of there heads, encasing them. The nice part is that you don't have to mine it out if you don't want to yet, simply pump some water into the -now less deep- pit, and pump the magmaroom with a new batch of magma. (after having switched the lever back again, ofc)

[Kittah_Khan]

what about a multi-level magma pool( 9x9x3 ) fed by a pipe supported by a bridge( 3x3 ), above which one empty layer of air, and above that another bridge( 3x3 ) supporting water( 3x3x1 ), also fed by a pipe

on lever pull, both bridges open, water hits magma and creates magma in mid-air, which falls through the rest of the magma and through the hole where the opened bridge is onto whatever is under it.
magma should be considerably slower in flowing out, leaving you enough time to close the bridges etc again without the magma pool flowing out entirely, leaving you at least another use

this all relies on the magma falling slower than water and obsidean...

[Doppel]

Hmm, i maybe had myself a better idea which will in all probability not work:

z level 1:

Code: [Select]

#####
#bbb#
#bbb#
#bbb#
#####
# = walls
b = magmasafe retracting bridge supported by the surrounding walls
fill this room with magma

z level 0

Code: [Select]

#####
#bbb#
+bbb#
#bbb#
#####
# = wall
b = retracting bridge supported by the walls
+ = entry point into the fortress.
this is the entry room, where the goblins have to get lured in.

z level - 1

Code: [Select]

#######
#BBBBB#
#BbbbB#
#BbbbB#
#BbbbB#
#BBBBB#
#######
# = wall
B = upright seperate (from the b bridges) bridges supported by the floor beneath then
b = retracting bridge supported by the floors on which the upright bridges are located
this is the water room, filled with water.

z level - 2 to - the lowest point of the map

Code: [Select]

#####
#...#
#...#
#...#
#####
# = wall
. = pit
this is the (artificial) pit

Now, link the b bridges of z level 1 and 2 to lever 1, the B bridges are linked to a different (never to be touched) lever x and are always in upright form and the level 3 b bridge is linked to lever 2.

How i imagine it is that by the switch of the lever 1 the goblins (located into the entry room) fall into the water below, the magma located above the entry room will fall ontop of there heads, afterwards you switch lever 2 which would then drop the block of obsidian (seeing that it doesn't stick against the upright B bridges acting like walls) in to the pit to be shattered on the lowest level (i think).
Then simply switch the bridges back into place and refill the correct rooms with magma and water ready for the next victim(s).

This probably does not work though, but i will try to test it out anyways.

[biomatter]

Crazy Idea

I really like this one.... This appeals to me, because of the dual encasing-in-obsidian (does that really happen?) and the cracking-it-open-after-huge-drop. But you mention using upright bridges to prevent the obsidian from binding to the natural walls. Why can't we just do that with the OP's idea? I would've sworn he mentioned doing that, but it appeared to be discarded though I can't find where, or why.

Oh, and someone (a.k.a. not me) should establish the effect of obsidian forming on/above bridges. It won't break them if they're retracted/upright, will it? I mean, granted it doesn't hit the upright part, or break all the supports of the retracted bridge. I want to know how this will affect Doppel's idea.

[AlienChickenPie]

I mentioned something a little different. My idea was to have separate bridges for the floor and for the walls. I didn't know that bridges couldn't provide support, so my design was a little redundant, with the wall bridges turning out of the way along with the floor.

Now, there are two things to be seen, and the success of this trap depends on them-
1. Can bridges support liquids?
2. Bridges can't support walls, so what happens to them when obsidian forms?
If the answer to 1 is no, the trap would have to be drastically changed to implement the dynamic methods suggested in this thread.
If the answer to 1 is yes, the answer to 2 doesn't really matter, because it would only affect the reloading process.

[Doppel]

I tested it out and weird shit results i have to say.
Well, first of all, the bridge sadly doesn't support the block of obsidian, which isn't that bad.
Secondly, the block of obsidian doesn't shatter, which again isn't that bad.
Now for the bad part, i tested it multiple times and only once i managed to create an obsidian block encasing the victim and then it falling down the pit.
Now for the weird parts.
Most of the time my victim got encased in the cooling magma, but sadly the obsidian stuck itself to the floors on which the wall bridges (or floodgates) were located, which makes for other weird stuff seeing that its located INSIDE the bridge located there, thus if you retract the bridge you can see the obsidian block, if you extract the bridge IT EXTRACTS INSIDE THE OBSIDIAN BLOCK!
Now for the extremely weird parts, sometimes, more then often, my victim would SURVIVE, which would normally be entirely impossible seeing that the entrychamber where the victim resides is exactly as big as the magma room above it and the water beneath it. Thus, somehow, someway, my victim manages to sometimes escape being a) charred to death from the magma falling ontop of his head, b) falling into a watery doom underneath him, c) falling into the pit beneath the watery doom, d) falling at all and in fact manage to transport himself from between the soon to be obsidionized magma and water ON TOP OF THE THEN FORMED OBSIDIAN BLOCK!!! The best of it all? Not a single scratch, like some magma dodging, wall jumping ninja dwarf. Ninja Gaiden Fortress.

[Neoskel]

I tested it out and weird shit results i have to say.
Well, first of all, the bridge sadly doesn't support the block of obsidian, which isn't that bad.
Secondly, the block of obsidian doesn't shatter, which again isn't that bad.
Now for the bad part, i tested it multiple times and only once i managed to create an obsidian block encasing the victim and then it falling down the pit.
Now for the weird parts.
Most of the time my victim got encased in the cooling magma, but sadly the obsidian stuck itself to the floors on which the wall bridges (or floodgates) were located, which makes for other weird stuff seeing that its located INSIDE the bridge located there, thus if you retract the bridge you can see the obsidian block, if you extract the bridge IT EXTRACTS INSIDE THE OBSIDIAN BLOCK!
Now for the extremely weird parts, sometimes, more then often, my victim would SURVIVE, which would normally be entirely impossible seeing that the entrychamber where the victim resides is exactly as big as the magma room above it and the water beneath it. Thus, somehow, someway, my victim manages to sometimes escape being a) charred to death from the magma falling ontop of his head, b) falling into a watery doom underneath him, c) falling into the pit beneath the watery doom, d) falling at all and in fact manage to transport himself from between the soon to be obsidionized magma and water ON TOP OF THE THEN FORMED OBSIDIAN BLOCK!!! The best of it all? Not a single scratch, like some magma dodging, wall jumping ninja dwarf. Ninja Gaiden Fortress.

The point of the trap was to drop obsidian blocks on people underneath. So i'd take it that that application would work?

[Doppel]

Yoes it would if you make the entry room underneath the water room and the water room atleast a click bigger then the magma room above it, and you wouldn't mind to quicly rebuilt the bridge acting as floor of the water room (which doesn't need to be linked to anything anyways)

[AlienChickenPie]

Let me get this straight- Bridges support the newly formed obsidian, and will retract into the block if designed to do so? All without any of the bridges breaking or the obsidian dropping down unless it's completely unsupported, even by bridges?
Well, if that's the case, my original trap should work pretty well.

[Zironic]

Dropping magma on them, and then flooding the chamber with water is win win, especially if you have grates. Theres no need for this kinetic projectile business.

[Ivefan]

the whole purpose was to make something dwarvenly unecesscarilt advanced trap rathee than simply making a drowning chamber