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[pushy]

I like to look out for my dwarves. Some will be sacrificed if the situation calls for it, but in general I'd rather use a winding trap corridor to kill off unwanted 'guests' rather than risking the lives of my dwarves in combat. However I'm also rather obsessed with making sure that (where possible) all invaders get killed; they wanted to kill my dwarves and I'd rather not let them be able to tell their tragic tale to baby goblins. This sometimes isn't a problem as one by one the goblins will walk through the corridor and get killed by weapon traps, but if they start to flee I've got to make a choice of chasing the (wise? cowardly?) ones or letting them go, as they're obviously not going to walk into my traps that are in front of them and presumably the ones behind them have become clogged by the remains of their companions and aren't going to kill them.
I have a skeleton crew in my military (if any at all) so this is usually out of the question except possibly with drafting my legendary miners to chase them down if they're close enough.

So, I've been trying to think of ways to help me kill the cowards, but still keeping my dwarves relatively safe before this (i.e. I don't want to get rid of my traps ). One idea that I'm keen on giving a shot is to have my military right at the entrance, but hidden away somehow, then unleashed if the goblins retreat. I'm thinking that by using floodgates or a raisable bridge linked to a lever I could do this; the floodgates are closed when the goblins go past (my militia could even just be getting ready at this point), the goblins get slaughtered by the traps, retreat and pulling a lever will open the floodgates and allow my military to mop up when the goblins go past them a second time.

Top-down view of the sort of thing I'm thinking of:
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
...............^^^^^
...............^^^^^ Rest of fort is this way
...............^^^^^
__________▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
XXXXXXXXXX
╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬
☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺

▒ = Wall
. = Floor
^ = Trap
_ = Channel (so trolls, megabeasts or whatever can't reach and destroy my little hideaway)
X = Floodgate
╬ = Fortification (not really needed, I suppose, due to the channel. I assume retreating bowgoblins won't fire at my dwarves?)
☺ = Marksdwarf


Any opinions on this? Anything I'm overlooking (aside from the obvious lack of desire to spill dwarf blood over my fortress. Armok has already cursed me for that)? Any alternatives that may be better?

[E-mouse]

Leave a large part of the lead-in to your trap corridor untrapped, put some floodgates at both ends, and set up a system to have the trap region double as a drowning chamber. Lock the goblins in once they arrive, and drown them if they refuse to suicide rush your traps.

Make sure to have a drainage system, though.

▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
F...............^^^^^F
F...............^^^^^F Rest of fort is this way
FH.............^^^^^F
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒

F = Floodgate
H = Hatch Cover (that stops water, right?)

I don't know how to set up a flooding and drainage system for this, but it's a safer method if you're willing to set it up.

You could also use the same lock-in format with the marksdwarves, actually. More assurance that once they get close enough, they will not get away.

Building destroyers would cause trouble, though...

[LegacyCWAL]

A couple ideas I've had along these lines both involve tightly controlling the possible approaches to my fort.  Basically, my front gates have their usual defenses, and the path leading to the gates is long and narrow.  VERY long.  As in, like, half the map long.  Causeways, tunnels, bridges, whatever, just so long as I know exactly where they're coming, and thus exactly where they'll be retreating.

When the goblins reach the real teeth of my defenses, they will have been going down this limited-access path for quite a ways, so when they break and run, they have a very long ways to travel along a path that I know for a fact that they'll take.  At this point, there's two options:

1) The easier one is to have some spots where Marksdwarves can pop out on one side of a moat lining the access road.  These spots would be placed in such a way as to make it a nice, short walk for the Marksdwarves, giving them plenty of time to get there before the goblins run off.  Goblins attack, goblins break, goblins run, goblins suddenly find themselves in a shooting gallery.

2) The harder (and thus more Dwarfy) one involves changing the access road's layout mid-battle.  At one point along the road, it splits into two for a ways.  One of them is the normal road, the other is inaccessable and filled with an unholy number of traps.  When the goblins get to my defenses, a lever or pressure plate flips some bridges (or floodgates or whatever), making the first (normal) branch inaccessable, and the other (trapped) part the only route out.  Thus they have no choice but to follow the trapped path out.


For a quick, crude illustration:

Code: [Select]


FORT.....................
                        .
.........................
.
.........................
                    b   +
                    .   ^
                    .   ^    <-NUMBER 2
                    .   ^
                    b   +
.........................
.   ☺☺☺☺ <-NUMBER 1
.....................REST OF MAP


. = moat-lined road, causeway, elevated skyway, whatever
^ = trapped road
b = crossable bridge
+ = retracted bridge
☺ = End of a straight-line underground tunnel leading back to your Marksdwarves


[LegoLord]

Some of these ideas would go really well with some good ol' fashioned magma 
It sure would help you deal with useless narrow clothing items.

[Bromor Neckbeard]

As an alternative to the drowning chamber, I use an elevated bridge (constructed floors, or undercut natural stone if you're worried about building destroyers) with a drawbridge at each end.  Once the entire ambush squad gets on the bridge, you raise both drawbridges.  Then you can kill the goblins at your leisure with crossbows or ballistas or whatever you want.

If you have just one weapon or cage trap before the double-bridge setup, this will reveal hidden ambushers, but won't cause enough casualties to make them flee.  Also, as long as you get an entire ambush squad on the bridge at a time, if there's any other ambush squads, they will mill around patiently outside of your outer drawbridge, despite seeing what happens to their fellows.  Goblins only retreat if a certain percentage of their own squad is killed, not if a different squad is killed.

Right now, I just use interlocking fields of fire due to two towers and a gatehouse.  I don't actually have a way to kill goblins outside of my fort walls, as all my defenses point inward.  Eventually I'm going to build a giant tower that pours my choice of lava or water onto the bridge.  I already have a way to drain the liquid into my moat, even though I don't use it yet.

Even as incomplete as this construction is, and despite using only one weapon trap and two cage traps (I got an artifact spiked iron ball which I wanted to put to use, and Armok demands live goblins to sacrifice), no goblin or kobold has ever escaped my fortress once he got within its walls.

[LegoLord]

This mechanism that floods you're bridge, what are the details of it?  Depending on what it looks like, I may have a few suggestions for it.
I do a lot of work with magma, I know all it's tricks by now (I think  )

[Bromor Neckbeard]

Well, as I said, it's not actually built yet.  I've got a magma pipe that I'm only using for forges right now, and a cave river that I haven't even exploited yet (because I'm only 9 years into my current fort, and I've been prioritizing massive fortress walls, trading, and steel and glass production over this tower thing).  In a few more years once I get it built, I'll have one reservoir for water and one for magma, and a tower that can pump either or both of them up several z-levels and make a water/lavafall onto the bridge.

Oh, the bridge is a z-level above the ground but has walls around it a minimum of 2 z-levels high, so it will actually be able to function as a kind of drowning chamber as well as a killing field.  If I run into any problems during construction, LegoLord, I will certainly keep in mind your offer for help, and if I get it functioning properly, I'll post some nice 3Dwarf screenshots or maybe a movie of it in action for your approval.

The only problem I foresee is that I don't have bauxite on my map, but constructed walls don't melt in this version, so that won't be a problem.

[Jay]

You could make two separate chambers that combine into one central one (where your main traps will be)
Leave one side untrapped and trap the other side.
Hook up the untrapped side to a lever.
Open it.
Hook up the trapped side to another lever.
Leave it closed.
When goblins get to your central trap area, close the untrapped side and open the trapped side.
They'll HAVE to go over the traps to get back out.

Code: [Select]

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDD
F^^^^^^^^^^........^^^^^^^DDDDD
F^^^^^^^^^^........^^^^^^^DDDDD
F^^^^^^^^^^........^^^^^^^DDDDD
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX....XXXDDDDD
f......................X
f......................X
f......................X
f = Open floodgate (when not under attack)
F = Closed floodgate (as above)
X = Wall
. = Floor
^ = Trap
D = Depot

You probably want to give the entire thing a bit more length then this.
There's a delay on floodgates and they *might* be able to escape in one of that length if you don't get the lever pulled immediately.
And you might not get an entire siege killed by a trapped area of that length.

It's ye olde switcheroo.

[Warlord255]

Set up a perimeter wall outside your fort and leave it open; close it as soon as you detect an ambush inside.

For bonus points, set up the perimeter wall around the entire map.

[LegoLord]

Set up a perimeter wall outside your fort and leave it open; close it as soon as you detect an ambush inside.

For bonus points, set up the perimeter wall around the entire map.

This can only be done with drawbridges, as constructions cannot be built too close to the edge of the map 

[Squeegy]

Set up a perimeter wall outside your fort and leave it open; close it as soon as you detect an ambush inside.

For bonus points, set up the perimeter wall around the entire map.

This can only be done with drawbridges, as constructions cannot be built too close to the edge of the map 

Attn: that doesn't mean you can't build a perimeter wall, it just means there'll be space outside.

[Jay]

Set up a perimeter wall outside your fort and leave it open; close it as soon as you detect an ambush inside.

For bonus points, set up the perimeter wall around the entire map.

This can only be done with drawbridges, as constructions cannot be built too close to the edge of the map 

Eh..  The entire point of that post just flew straight over your head, huh?
EDIT: Bah!

Attn: that doesn't mean you can't build a perimeter wall, it just means there'll be space outside.

[Narmio]

I too enjoy killing every last goblin, and I've tried things like locking doors and raising bridges in my defences, but I find that when multiple goblin squads attack from different corners of the map they tend to hit my defences at different times.

To deal with this I tend to situate my fort in a valley or similar large outside funneling zone.  My defences are all the way inside the valley at my cave entrance, but the large funnel area means I can put a squad or two of "mop-up" dwarves in a tunnel that leads to the valley entrance. 

As soon as all the goblins have passed their little hidden bunker, they pop out and guard the exit.  By the time the goblins have broken and are running for the hills, there's no risk to a squad of fast-moving skirmishers and every last goblin can be put down like the dogs they are.

[LegoLord]

Set up a perimeter wall outside your fort and leave it open; close it as soon as you detect an ambush inside.

For bonus points, set up the perimeter wall around the entire map.

This can only be done with drawbridges, as constructions cannot be built too close to the edge of the map 

Eh..  The entire point of that post just flew straight over your head, huh?
EDIT: Bah!

Attn: that doesn't mean you can't build a perimeter wall, it just means there'll be space outside.

Well, he did say the entire map.  Someone was bound to misunderstand.  The fact that it was me makes me unhappy.

[Shurikane]

Note: you want to leave some space beyond your walls, or else migrants and merchants will have difficulty navigating towards your fort.

I learned this the hard way after channeling all the squares before the edge of the map.  The resulting logistical nightmare caused me to abandon the fort in sheer frustration.  It just wasn't worth it, considering how easy it is to dispatch gobbos anyway.

The sane alternative is to leave something like 8 spaces to the edge of the map, which is usually plenty for wagons to navigate through (unless you had the bright idea to settle in the Amazonian jungle - but then, nothing you couldn't solve with a bit of paving to prevent regrowth around the edges.  The inner area is protected by moat, wall or both.

This leaves place for dwarfy mechanisms on the inside for whichever sort of traps you'd like to setup.

Alternatively, you can build your outer walls out of drawbridges that are activated through some sort of nigh unpredictable, water-driven pressure plate system, threby making your walls go up and down on a constant and seemingly random basis, and forcing gobbos to constantly reconsider their path to enter your fort.  For added comedy, make your perimeter several layers deep and watch as the gobs get lost in the ever-changing atomsmasher maze.

And if you feel overly sadistic, make each drawbridge at least two tiles deep so that they uncover a channel beneath when they raise.  Fill every tile of the channelled area with a full array of 10 upright spikes or weapons.  Leave some access tunnels to the spike strips so that your dwarves can either finish off the hurt and fallen goblins and/or retrieve the loot.