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[Puck]

Alright, long time, no tortured dwarves... but right now, I feel the need to 'e'mbark again!
So I got me the newest version, my favourite tileset, my favourite initfile, and off we go!

But there's something I'd like to know before I get frustrated again:

I really would like to have a tool that automatically controls the water level in various cisterns, but I never found pressure plates to be very reliable. Has that changed? Can I use pressure plates in potentially dangerous water systems? Or will they -still- cease to function sooner or later and drown everything?

[JoshuaFH]

i've made a cistern that uses a pressure plate controlled system for many in-game years, and it's never failed me once.

[Puck]

would you care to describe what exactly you built and how it works? and since which version you have been using similar constructions?

[Forumsdwarf]

I've found that to overcome the pressure plate minimum latency trigger reset problem you have to use evaporation.

If your trigger points are at depth 1 and 0, the change 1 to 0 is buffered by the delay of evaporation, while the change from 0 to 1 is buffered by the delay of floodgates opening and water flowing from the source.

For both changes the pressure plate has time to reset.

Fine-tune the water release by putting the plate in a corridor in communication with the topmost body of water in the system.  The longer the corridor the more water is introduced per cycle.

[Puck]

Hmm, I've tried that and I'm fairly confident I managed to screw the plates up that way, too.

Maybe if I used several "failsafe corridors", but that's not really encouraging.
So, to put it short, the problem still exists, right?

Oh well, I guess I just have to live without them.

[i2amroy]

Pressure plates are useful in certain situations, like keeping a well full, because that doesn't have to be very exact, but they will still sometimes run into trouble with extremely sensitive missions that require a certain water level to be maintained or created.

[duro]

After several critical pressure plate errors culminating in the need to dig a huge water drain under my fortresses, you know, I abandoned the whole idea. If there is pressure involved, I just let it flow (spoiler). If I need constant water levels of n/7 (where 0<n<7) I use flood chambers. Looks icky and takes ages to complete and I hate it, but at least it works unless there's some gremlin or me deciding it's fun to pull these levers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Stupid autodrain:

Code: [Select]

lvl n   lvl n-1
▒+++++▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒≡≡≡≡≡▒ +++++++
▒+++++▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒·····▒ ▒·····▒
▒·····▒ ▒·····▒
▒·····▒ ▒·····▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒

▒ wall
+ floor
· free space
≡ floor bars

[Puck]

Pressure plates are useful in certain situations, like keeping a well full, because that doesn't have to be very exact....

I disagree here. If the well is inside the fortress, maybe several z levels below the water source, you're gonna be hipdeep in water (and we all know what height that is for dwarves) if something fails.

Its much safer to route the pressurized water through a pump thats below the well. the pump will ONLY fill it's own z level, and not the levels above it.

Boy, I wish pressure plates were reliable...

[JoshuaFH]

sorry i2amroy, but your just wrong.

on the temp forum during the downtime, i made a topic showing the exact details of my self-filling cistern. check it out.

http://dwarvenpassion.smfforfree3.com/index.php/topic,17.0.html

[Random832]

sorry i2amroy, but your just wrong.

on the temp forum during the downtime, i made a topic showing the exact details of my self-filling cistern. check it out.

http://dwarvenpassion.smfforfree3.com/index.php/topic,17.0.html

Does your self-filling cistern have the goal of keeping the water level at exactly a given level and not above or below? This is needed for, for example, carp-taming [4] and swimming-training [5].

The problem, though, is not pressure plates, it's _floodgates_, their long reaction delay, and the fact that they will miss state changes if fired during the delay.

[Puck]

So you mean, the problem stems from floodgates going out of synch with the pp... makes sense in some way...

PP sends "open" state and the the "closed" state so quickly the gate can not react, right? similar to pulling a lever quickly, I guess...

Does any of you guys have a clue how it's coded? Would it slow the game down horribly if there was a "safety check" done on PPs every once in a while?

Oh and more importantly: Am I the only one who would love to be able to just USE pressure plates without worrying? I mean, come on, think of all the automatization possible!

[Random832]

So you mean, the problem stems from floodgates going out of synch with the pp... makes sense in some way...

PP sends "open" state and the the "closed" state so quickly the gate can not react, right? similar to pulling a lever quickly, I guess...

Does any of you guys have a clue how it's coded? Would it slow the game down horribly if there was a "safety check" done on PPs every once in a while?

Oh and more importantly: Am I the only one who would love to be able to just USE pressure plates without worrying? I mean, come on, think of all the automatization possible!

I'd actually like a proper valve for controlling water height - like a (sounds dirty but it's not) ballcock. Say, require a mechanism, pipe, block, and a piece of some material lighter than water (wood, generally, but can't be something heavy like ebony, ironwood, or glumprong) for the float. Not sure how magma-safe ones would woork

[Puck]

Ok, excuse me being childish, but boy

...such as those found in flush toilets, while avoiding overflow. It was invented by Thomas Crapper.

that one made me chuckle.

But yeah, that's basically it. It's just... that's actually the same thing a pressure plate would do, it's just visualized differently... I don't really think it matters if you picture the construction as working with weight or in form of a floating ball on a lever. Especially since you have to picture most of the game anyway 

I'm totally serious btw. It's the same thing- if it worked, that is.

[Random832]

Well, for the control itself, yeah - I meant for the whole valve though - the key is finely regulating flow than a simple delayed "on/off". And it would be the flow control device rather than controlling a floodgate. Disadvantages would be a slower flow rate, no way to allow water through to a position higher than the valve installation itself, and more materials required.

Hell, a flapper valve would be another useful thing to have - a hatch that is opened by a lever and closed when there is no longer any water in its tile.

[Pilsu]

Use doors instead, those react faster if I remember right

Doesn't look quite as shiny I suppose