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[Jake]

Is anyone else tired of mopping up after their fortress reenacts the Rodney King riots when a dwarf gets shot and killed for simple vandalism? Here's a couple of ideas I'd like to prevent for curbing this phenomenon:

1. Making the probability of stunning and/or rendering unconscious a variable in the init files, making it possible to arm the fortress guard with low-damage weapons that still have a high probability of knocking a dwarf out.

2. Changing the way the fortress and Royal Guard react to tantrumming dwarves, maybe by generating an 'arrest miscreant' job that works a bit like recover wounded whereby they have to grab the dwarf in question and drag them to the cells.

3. Adjusting tantrums and berserk rages so that merely tantrumming only causes dwarves to break stuff rather than attack other dwarves or animals. Ideally the death of a berserk dwarf should also generate a somewhat smaller unhappy thought than someone dying in a cave-in or goblin ambush.

So, thoughts?

[Granite26]

1: The init file is the wrong place for this.  Stun chance/damage on weapons as defined in the raws is a good idea though.

2:  Close enough

3:  Disapprove, but maybe create a lesser severity of tantrum like this?

[Jake]

Sorry; I still get the init and raw files mixed up. And as far as the tantrum/berserk thing goes, it'd be nice if there was a middle grade of tantrum where a dwarf just hauled off and punched someone but stopped short of inflicting lethal harm, but I'm not sure if that's possible without some fairly drastic adjustment of the AI code.

While we're on the subject of dwarven law enforcement, how about adding theft and robbery to the list of potential crimes?

[Silverionmox]

It would be nice too if guard actually guarded the fortress from thieves. Like, for example, run over there when one is signaled and stomp it.

[G-Flex]

I'm not sure what kinds of medieval weaponry you'd be able to make specifically for knocking people out; hell, we have trouble with that in the 21st century. However, I like the idea of the fortress guard (or something similar) being more restricted to internal security and possibly assigning them low-damage weapons.

Hell, as long as the guards try to incapacitate/grapple/subdue dwarves in some way before stabbing them, it would be nice, especially if tantruming dwarves have a chance to actually stop once they get whopped upside the head by a mean-looking guard.

[Tormy]

I'm not sure what kinds of medieval weaponry you'd be able to make specifically for knocking people out; hell, we have trouble with that in the 21st century. However, I like the idea of the fortress guard (or something similar) being more restricted to internal security and possibly assigning them low-damage weapons.

You don't need any specific weaponry for that. What we need is a new profession: headbutter! 

Okay, on a more serious note: #2. I like, This would be a good way to make the f.guards more important, since they are almost good for nothing as it is now. [Especially if you "don't have" a hammerer, if you know what I mean.. ]

[Neonivek]

I am kinda sad... from the title I thought this was a suggestion about making certain Stockpiles vulnerable to theft and thus giving us a reason to bulk up the security surrounding it.

[Jake]

Hell, as long as the guards try to incapacitate/grapple/subdue dwarves in some way before stabbing them, it would be nice, especially if tantruming dwarves have a chance to actually stop once they get whopped upside the head by a mean-looking guard.

An extra use for the Intimidater and/or Pacifier skills, perhaps, with a weapon that trains them? And I do think there should be an outside chance of inflicting lethal harm with at least some of these weapons, but it wouldn't be that hard to come up with something relatively harmless; a stout sick wrapped in several layers of sacking, for example, or a blunted crossbow bolt with a small bag of sand or sawdust on the end.

I am kinda sad... from the title I thought this was a suggestion about making certain Stockpiles vulnerable to theft and thus giving us a reason to bulk up the security surrounding it.

I actually mention something like that a little further down, though I was thinking more about shops than stockpiles. Law enforcement definitely needs an overhaul first, though; I personally think the last thing DF needs is yet more ways to start tantrum spirals.

[Sabin Stargem]

Billyclubs and black jacks would make sense in the context of law enforcement.  The former is basically a tonfa, but bludgeoning and is only used as a single weapon, not in pairs.  Essentially a stick.  Black Jacks on the other hand are basically a bean-bag attached to a stick or strip of cloth that is used to hit people on the head.

Essentially, these law-enforcement weapons could act as backup weapons for soldiers and fortress guards, that are favored when taking down friendly dwarves.  I suppose we could add in daggers as well, though obviously they are not for law enforcement, but rather to act as a backup weapon during military affairs.

[G-Flex]

Black Jacks on the other hand are basically a bean-bag attached to a stick or strip of cloth that is used to hit people on the head.

Bean bag? You might be thinking of something else, but generally speaking, a "blackjack" tends to be made out of something ridiculously heavy, like lead, wrapped in something soft like leather.

[Sabin Stargem]

Now that you mention it, I think the wiki article mentioned that.  The way I imagined it, the 'bag' portion of black jack would contain something that would have a strong impact without having sheer crushing power - like pebbles or possibly sand.  I tend to let my imagination run wild.

[Archaeologist]

I'd be interested in a "arrest miscreant" feature.

Give that Dwarves are pretty tough, It would likely be easier to make the skill revolve around Wrestling, and Mace/ Hammer.  But only if they resist.

A dwarf can survive a nice grey/ brown wound to the head just fine :p

[scribbler]

Use the alchemist shop to make knockout potions and gas the bums. Also, great trap, siege and home defense applications. Or just fun to give a noble a lever that will knock him out.

[MMad]

I agree that it would be nice if guards did actually arrest people without killing them outright. Maybe basing their behavioral logic in real-life policemen might make sense?

Something along the lines of first doing a basic consoler/pacifier check from afar, then if unsuccessful the guard would try to wrestle the tantrumer to the ground and hold them down (easier if there is more than one guard involved) and then do consoler/pacifier skill checks until the perp calms down enough to be taken into custody.

If the tantruming dwarf is unarmed but fighting back effectively, the guards should bring out their less-lethal weapons - body blows with maces is a good example. If the tantrumer has already attacked dwarves, they go straight to this stage.

If they face armed dwarfs intent on murder, they take no chances and bring out their crossbows. Same if the perp has already killed someone (not counting pets).

Also, I like the idea of some tantruming dwarfs only damaging property and not people, with the opposite also possible. I guess I think this should be based on personality instead of severity, but perhaps we could have both. After all, most humans would probably start throwing stuff long before they begin hurting other people - but then again, maybe dwarfs are different.

[Milskidasith]

Here's an idea: Let the police use whips and scourges. Instead of hammerer, dwarves have the old favorite, the lasher! Gore damage is already very effective at knocking out dwarves, and a fortress guard member probably doesn't have the skill to, as I was able to in Adventure mode with a little cheating, whip off limbs. Modify the AI code a bit and we can have non lethal, whips, billy clubs, blunt crossbow bolts and dwarven nerve gas.