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[Fenrir]

So some of you are planning to make an MMORPG, eh? I can't help, I'm a Dabbling Programmer, a Novice Web Developer, a XXPixel ArtistXX, and I'm even worse at planning (probably the worst part).

[Dark]

Copy and pasted!

Features eh...? For starters:

1. Ability to carve out tunnels and rooms inside mountains and hills.
2. Ability to alter the ground by digging trenches or making dirt paths.
3. Ability to murder trees and process them into usuable material.
4. Ability to make various items from rock and wood.
5. Ability to make walls outdoors with wood and stone.
6. Ability to attack traitorous dwarves.
7. Ability to destroy walls and fill in empty trenches.
8. Ability to collect plants and channel water to promote plant growth.
9. Ability to plant seeds outdoors and grow cavecrops in caves.
10. Ability to sleep in beds to slowly recover health.
11. Ability to eat to speed recovery when resting.
12. Ability to apply herbs to speed recovery when resting.
13. Ability to apply herbs to accidentally poison your best friend.
14. Ability to brew alcohol from various plants and crops.
15. Ability to play as a dwarf!
16. Ability to create simple tools and advanced tools.
17. Finally require tools to work with material, start with some tools.
18. Ability to give tools and materials to other players without having to drop them.
19. Ability to find metal ores while mining.
20. Ability to refine metal ores with smelters and fuel.
21. Ability to find coal to use as fuel instead of wood.
22. Ability to create tools and items from metal at a forge.
23. Ability to find gems while mining.
24. Ability to work gems into various shapes.
25. Ability to encrust items with gems.
26. Ability to examine an item to see its quality and what gems its encrusted with.
27. Ability to decorate items.
28. Ability to make melee weapons and armour from metal.
29. Ability to fight various monsters.
30. Ability to form different factions, groups or guilds.
31. Ability to fight or trade with other factions.
32. Ability to upgrade dirt paths into roads.
33. Ability to make signposts.
34. Ability to gain skill in various trades.
35. Ability to make better items and tools with higher skill.
36. Ability to deal more damage with higher skill.
37. Ability to play as a human.
38...
39...
40...

We would of course have to go into each of these in more detail as we add them. Plus theres room at the bottom to add more features!

One more thing, this would be far easier if we used tile based 2D graphics rather than 3D. So far ive yet to see a 3D game in which you can dig tunnels, excluding Wurm because that uses a tile system.

[ March 08, 2008: Message edited by: Dark ]

[Fenrir]

You could use Toady's development goals and alter them for online play.

[Dark]

I dont think it would work, theres too many of them, plus I would rather not copy Toady and Threetoe's goals, but rather make my own, which may be very similar in every way. Plus I need to choose a programming language and actually get good at it before I even start this insane project! Plus I need helpers.

So anyone who wanted to join in the previous thread that had nothing to do with programming, post here and vote for which language to use! Then we shall practice until we're no longer dabbling, maybe even until we're no longer novice! After that we can try create some sort of base program than we can start adding features to, hopefully with relative ease.

[ March 08, 2008: Message edited by: Dark ]

[Fenrir]

It would seem that interest has waned.

EDIT: Spelling

[ March 08, 2008: Message edited by: Fenrir ]

[subject name here]

I have one important bit of advice for you. Do not open source your code with the intention of having everyone else finish the game for you. That's how lots of projects die.

Many newbie programmers seem to think if they make their program open source random people from the internet will start giving them a hand. They won't.

That's why DF is fully playable and all the other ambitious games haven't even left the planning stage.

[ March 08, 2008: Message edited by: subject name here ]

[Boksi]

Actually, no. Don't expect a post every half a hour though.

I support 2d tile-based graphics, and would like to propose the following system for goals:

D: Demand
S: Sub-demand
T: Technical solution

D1: Starting the game:
It must be possible to run a certain file to start playing the game.
T1: Compile an exectuable file.

D2: Making a character:
It must be possible to create a character.
   S1: The character should be different from other characters.
   S2: It must be possible to play as a dwarf.
   S3: Other races, such as humans, might be implemented.
T2: The game must contain and save an extensive array of variables that is a character. They include race, looks and abilities.

D3: Internet connection:
The game must be able to communicate to a central server, which relays and coordinates data going between all machines playing the game. In essence, everybody is playing the same “level”, albeit in different locations both physically and datawise. They must also be able to interact with each other.
T3: The game must be designed around a certain system that allows for efficient multiplayer. It must also contain code that sends and receives all necessary information and applies it accordingly.

D4: Player action:
The player must be able to move and interact with his environment.
   S1: The player must be able to dig tunnels.
   S2: The player must be able to build various buildings.
   S3: The player must be able to destroy various buildings.
   S4: The player must be able to cut down/harvest and plant seeds and plants, above- and underground.
T4: This requires code that changes the variables, which I shall call character_x, character_y and character_z. It also requires code that changes what a certain tile contains.

D5: Player crafting:
The player must be able to make, examine, improve, repair and use various items.
   S1: The player must be able to turn wood into various items, such as beds.
   S2: The player must be able to turn rock into various items, such as doors.
   S3: The player must be able to smelt and forge various metal items.
   S4: The player must be able to improve a basic item with other items.
   S5: The player must be able to view the items and it’s improvements.
   S6: The items must be usable and used in various tasks such as mining.
   S7: The player MUST be able to brew booze and drink it.
   S8: The player must be able to plant, harvest and process various plants.
T5: This basically is just more arrays and HAS_<ITEM> boolean checks.

D6: Player skills:
The player must have various skills, such as mining, carpentry and lye making. It must be possible to improve them through using them, and they should affect success chance and quality.
T6: Just a large array, really.

D7: Fighting:
The player must be able to attack and be attacked, either by NPCs or other players. Various things to do should be in, such as various fighting styles. Skill and equipment should affect combat.
   S1: Wrestling needs to be in.
   S2: A detailed wound system should be in.
T7: This one’s a toughie. Lots of booleans, arrays, variables and plain RNG action is needed.

D8: Player-to-Player interaction:
The players should be able to interact with each other in more ways than just fighting.
   S1: The players should be able to barter various items.
   S2: The players should be able to form actual alliances, guilds and towns.
   S3: The players should be able to wage wars between alliances.
   S4: The players should be able to build roads and signposts.

D9: Various nonsense:
The word shouldn’t be boring; it should be varied. Ships would be fun to have, too. Carp, elephants, unicorns and GCSers. Magma. Crazy engineering projects. Varied plants, booze, alchemical stuff, minerals, rock types, trees, gems, coal and lignite, and lot’s of stuff like that.
T9: Devote lots of time into making a small array of data for each and every item, for one thing. have various kinds of weather and support for multi-tile creatures. Various kinds of mechanisms.

Feel free to subdivide the demands set forth here further, it'd be better.

Also, if we'll use tiles, what resolution should we use? 16x16 DF tiles? 32x32 tiles for more details? Some other size?

PS: It's waned, not wained, I believe.

[Fenrir]

I might steal that goal system for my own purposes.

[Keiseth]

Suggestion! Assuming you're not locked to a console-window number of "tiles" (80x25 I believe?) make your tiles variable width and variable height and allow the player or what not to use his own tilesets. Basically, akin to DF, but I was originally thinking of NetHack/SlashEM.

Even better, more akin to NetHack/SlashEM for now, make the area that the game is drawn in variable size as well. People with small resolutions will be able to use large tilesets at the cost of how far they can see without 'l'ooking (or equivalent.)

[qwertyuiopas]

Whatever.
I will still try to make a 3D one on my own as I already have opening a window and successfully using opengl done...

[Boksi]

Creatures are not to scale. Creatures are not on the same scale, even.

I dislike having such small tiles, but small, well-designed images are quite pleasant to look at if you can appreciate them. Mine aren't that great.

[Fenrir]

Where'd you get that goal system, Boski? Is that something you created yourself? I always fall short when it comes to planning.

[Dark]

Thats some good stuff Boksi, we could go through everything in more detail once we actually start, which wont be now. By the way I think we'll be going with 32x32 tiles or larger. We wouldnt want the graphics too hardcore, but not too ugly either. Also this is important, will we make the game, not the graphics, 2D or 3D. I mean like DF before the Z levels got added. 3D would be far better, but 2D is simpler.

2D example: You are restricted to a flat world that has various hills and cliffs that can be dug into. You cannot see or move on top of hills or cliffs because sight and movement is restricted to any tunnels dug into the hills and cliffs.

3D example: You can move all over the surface, including over hills and up cliffs and you cannot see anything underground. If you stand on a tunnel entrance tile then you lose sight of everything on top of the hills or cliffs but can now see and move underground.

The second example would need some kind of layering, with a surface layer and an underground layer. Plus even more layers if we want to allow players to dig tunnels downwards or upwards too.

In programming I have no idea how to do that! Anyway have we chosen a language yet? I want to get some kind of practice in before we start, otherwise we'll just create a Game instead of a +Game+, or worse, a !!Game!!.

Edit: Actually perhaps 64x64 would be better, my screen is awfully big and I dont want things to be too small, but not too big either.

Im also wondering if Toady could give us a few tips, though that's a lot to ask for.  :p

[ March 08, 2008: Message edited by: Dark ]

[Boksi]

I took a course in game design. In fact, today was the day I finished said course.

Anyway, if we're going to have 32x32, I can probably whip up a few graphics. Just as placeholders, though. Eventually I might be able to make it so the sprites would reflect your equipment as well, but that'd be after the game is actually somewhat made.

[Dark]

Thats all fine, but what programming language should we use?!   :roll:
For now I vote for C# since its less scary than C++.

quote: He recommends C#, which is much easier on the fresh programmer, but can only run under Windows and may possibly run a bit slower than C++. It will prevent holes in the programming from appearing or at least ruining your comp.

[ March 08, 2008: Message edited by: Dark ]