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Author Topic: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?  (Read 1325 times)

jockmo42

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Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« on: October 18, 2008, 02:48:37 pm »

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Dwarves are fickle creatures, and when pressed to the breaking point of their happiness, they will tantrum. A tantruming dwarf may attack people and animals, destroy buildings, or throw things. The dwarf will receive happy thoughts from doing this. Those acts are generally considered a crime.

Dwarves will tantrum if they are at the "very unhappy" level of happiness or worse. If a dwarf has created a masterpiece-level item, they will also throw a tantrum if it rots, or is ever destroyed or stolen. Masterpiece engravings can be destroyed by miners digging out walls or floors.

However, dwarves will not tantrum if a masterwork item is sold to foreigners, or if a masterpiece building is dismantled.

Okay, so I've never had a tantrum spiral happen to me, but from stories I've heard, it seems that one pissed off dwarf can destroy 80% of the population by pissing the rest off. Isn't this a little extreme? I can understand that this isn't a smiles and sunshine game, but it seems a bit unfair to completely cripple a fortress over a masterwork engraving being collapsed.

Do dwarves have a personality trait that dictates how they handle grief? I think it's odd that most dwarves react the same way in a lot of cases. Not every dwarf would run around hitting people if his artifact was destroyed or a loved one died. Some can be unhappy in peace, thus stifling the tantrum spiral.

Someone tell me if I don't know what I'm talking about, but I think that dwarves should have more unique chances to tantrum, and more unique behavior during a tantrum.

Bullion

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2008, 02:50:20 pm »

Legendary. Dining. Room.
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Tenebrais

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2008, 02:52:09 pm »

With a sufficient judicial system, a dwarf should be arrested before he can do too much damage. That way, far fewer dwarves are made upset to the point of breaking.
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MagicJuggler

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2008, 02:52:47 pm »

Legendary. Dining. Room.

FOOD FIGHT! Dwarven tantrums are always funnier when pie is tossed.
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chaoticag

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2008, 03:18:18 pm »

"All dwarves tantrum" is subject to debate. Personality does indeed affect how they tantrum.
The types never to get angry do not tantrum at all, just go into malencholy. Angrier dwarves go berserk and have to be put down.

Note: this information came from observational data procured from Prometheus's Robots! for mod.
Their personality didn't allow angry robots.
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Krash

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2008, 03:54:10 pm »

"All dwarves tantrum" is subject to debate. Personality does indeed affect how they tantrum.
The types never to get angry do not tantrum at all, just go into malencholy. Angrier dwarves go berserk and have to be put down.

Note: this information came from observational data procured from Prometheus's Robots! for mod.
Their personality didn't allow angry robots.

Didn't know that.  P cool
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Align

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2008, 06:10:06 pm »

"All dwarves tantrum" is subject to debate. Personality does indeed affect how they tantrum.
The types never to get angry do not tantrum at all, just go into malencholy. Angrier dwarves go berserk and have to be put down.

Note: this information came from observational data procured from Prometheus's Robots! for mod.
Their personality didn't allow angry robots.
So when they tantrumed they all became Marvin the paranoid android??
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EverybodylovesTJ

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2008, 06:34:01 am »

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Not every dwarf would run around hitting people if his artifact was destroyed or a loved one died.

If the ONE thing you were ever supposed to do in your life got ruined, would you be upset?
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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2008, 07:21:59 am »

also, the tantrum spiral only happens when the fortress has suffered mass death or standing trauma. otherwise it's just a few random ones.
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Krash

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2008, 07:48:51 am »

I'd like to see different dwarves getting upset for different reasons; a military veteran shouldn't flich when a few dwarves get gutted, while a simple soapmaker could go crazy just by seeing the slaughter.  The same badass warrior could then go on a rampage because there were no cat roasts to eat.

Also, mentally labile dwarfs should be far more likely to tantrum.  A good way to implement this would be to simply modify the base happiness by the personality of the dwarf.  This way, some dwarves would be extatic without any stimuli, while others would be unhappy (extreme case).
« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 07:55:07 am by Krash »
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chaoticag

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2008, 08:54:37 am »

I'd like to see different dwarves getting upset for different reasons; a military veteran shouldn't flich when a few dwarves get gutted, while a simple soapmaker could go crazy just by seeing the slaughter.  The same badass warrior could then go on a rampage because there were no cat roasts to eat.

Also, mentally labile dwarfs should be far more likely to tantrum.  A good way to implement this would be to simply modify the base happiness by the personality of the dwarf.  This way, some dwarves would be extatic without any stimuli, while others would be unhappy (extreme case).
Military veterains do not usually become tantrumers because they just stopped caring, soapmakers are more likely to tantrum.

You have to flesh out your idea a bit more. For example, some dwarves may have panic attacks when seiged too long. More assertive dwarves, should take charge when the fortress starts falling apart, maybe even forming their own factions, and leading to uncontrolled battle for rulership. Some dwarves might even decide to leave, rather than continue living where they are unhappy.

There are plenty of ideas that can be suggested here.
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Erom

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2008, 09:47:18 am »

Certainly, migrants LEAVING your fortress if unhappy would be a reasonable thing to have added. Maybe they leave with the caravan? It would make sense, taking the opportunity to have traveling companions and guards.
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Krash

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2008, 12:51:56 pm »

The same badass warrior could then go on a rampage because there were no cat roasts to eat.
Military veterains do not usually become tantrumers because they just stopped caring, soapmakers are more likely to tantrum.
That's why I added that last sentence. 

My point is that different dwarves should care about different things.  If a dwarf loves cats, he could go ballistic if you mass roast them.  And if he hates them, watching them die would give him a happy thought (a bit extreme, but no one could ever pretend dwarves in DF are anything near normal...).

It could probably work a bit like first aid.  Some dwarfs like helping (get a happy thought for it) and others don't (get an unhappy thought).  There should be different levels of preference/dislike too.

Certainly, migrants LEAVING your fortress if unhappy would be a reasonable thing to have added. Maybe they leave with the caravan? It would make sense, taking the opportunity to have traveling companions and guards.
I like that idea, but it should probably only happen in extreme cases, and be tied to the dwarf's personalities
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MyLittlePonyBuiltMyHotRod, this is your first warning. I would like to direct you to read our forum's FAQ and posting guidelines before posting again. Specifically we don't use swear words here, and your picture of Stalin riding a Year3 Limited Edition Starflower inside a German concentration camp was both upsetting and historically inaccurate.

RavingManiac

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2008, 02:08:42 am »

I suggest that, depending on personality, unhappy dwarves will either: a)Tantrum or b)Mope.
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mainiac

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Re: Should ALL THESE DWARVES throw the same tantrum?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2008, 03:21:33 am »

Legendary. Dining. Room.

This.

Maybe one day I'll see a tantrum.
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