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[Soulwynd]

I grabed this program off of a BBS some 20 years ago, i think it was called "game master" which means it's pretty much impossible to find a trace of through web searches now.

I remember finding, a couple years ago, a couple GM tools that created villages and floor plans (maybe procedurally? Don't remember). One of which you could even walk around in 3D.

[Sowelu]

I like playing hacking games like Uplink and hacker: Evolution, although I wish there was another game like Uplink however more realistic mission's and affects upon the world instead of a news report about it. I want to crash the whole economy down and see some impact, and some police trying to find out who really did it.

What, it's not enough to follow the plotline of Uplink and

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

destroy the Internet?

[MrWiggles]

Tagging to Follow.
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A Shadowrun mod for what have been shown currently, sounds very neat.

A Thief mod though, would also be neat.

[puke]

*points at the big red letters*

yeah, its funny how people come to forums when they arent really interested in conversing.  i'll just consider myself rebuked, and try to keep that in mind when i'm tempted to reply to your posts in the future.  we'll both have a better quality experience that way.

[Soulwynd]

*points at the big red letters*

yeah, its funny how people come to forums when they arent really interested in conversing.  i'll just consider myself rebuked, and try to keep that in mind when i'm tempted to reply to your posts in the future.  we'll both have a better quality experience that way.

Well, the spore example was not the best in that case, not because it didn't fit there but because... well... spore is not fun argh ugh bleh kill with fiar after all that hype and hope. I apologize.

The comparison between diablo and nethack I suppose goes more towards taste and what you think is fun. I know some diablo addicts and I couldn't get them to play any sort of rogue-like. Diablo still follows a certain fixed formula with certain static encounters in static rooms. Not that they're that bad, but they're not surprising anymore. In most rogue-likes when you encounter a boss-like npc, it's usually really random, or at the very least, the map for the dungeon level they are in is random.

I suppose it will depend on how enjoyable subversion will be. I just hope there wont be a lot of grinding for money like in uplink and that you can sort of hit a jackpot now and then if you get lucky.

If they manage to get a sort of procedural plot working too, that would be perfect.

[Sowelu]

Eh, Nethack irritates me because of the high risk involved, and I think that's what makes a lot of people avoid it--screw up or get unlucky and your character's gone, and while the learning curve is a lot of fun for some people, it's really not for others.  I'm okay with high learning curves as long as they're not that harsh on you when you fail.  With that said, I hope that Subversion doesn't lean towards X-Com levels of brutality.  Yes, you should need to be damn careful.  But I don't want it to be a case of "Oh I flubbed the mission, either I savescum or I start the game over, because now I won't be able to recover".

Unfortunately, to me that means having assets that aren't a pain in the ass to micromanage and develop over time.  If I screw up a mission I expect to lose some agents, but it would be nice if I could replace them with fresh recruits without bashing my head against the wall repeatedly.

[forsaken1111]

You could fail a few times in xcom and still win the game. I remember one of my TFTD games I lost a whole squad, 8 people. It was a huge blow but I eventually got new people trained.

[Soulwynd]

That's true. On my first UFO defense win, I had lost funding from 5 countries, including Japan. I had to live from downing ufos and selling parts and corpses.

Course, my major issue with any X-Com is the lack of an auto-resolve with some non-elite members. Of course you don't want to lose your trainable characters, but a set of ye average soldier group would have been nice to avoid some of the grinding you eventually have to do to keep up.

[MrWiggles]

Form my play through, I could generally lose most of soldiers somewhat regularly and be fine, what generally almost kills me is the inability to keep equipping the rookies and squaddies with decent items, at least till mid-late game.
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Depending on how the combat is, an x-com game could be very fun with this game. With its ability to procedurally generate cityscapes and buildingscapes (interiors, and alien bases), it'd be a lot more interesting to play then most of the current x-com indy projects. The static and indestructible environment, really hampers the replay ability.

[Sowelu]

If you can't blow it up then it's not X-Com, end of story.  That said, yeah, this kind of procedural stuff would be awesome for it.

[Pnx]

Allow me to extract a quote from "It's all in your head, Part 19"

Third and Final attempt : The world is rasterized onto a 2d grid. Walls produce solid grid cells that cannot be walked through. Navigation uses A* across the grid. It does use a lot of memory and there's a practical limit on how large the world can be, but it's perfect for Subversion. It can support dynamic scenery such as using shape-charge explosives to blow a hole in a wall ...

Destruction of the environment is in people.

[Sowelu]

Oh I was talking about the X-Com remakes that aren't X-Com because you can't blow holes in walls.  I didn't know destructable environments made it into Subversion--it makes me tremendously happy though!

[Pnx]

Meh fun stuff anyway, now I'm just wondering if I'll be able to blow holes in the floor/ceiling... Probably not, but it's fun to dream.

[Sowelu]

Meh fun stuff anyway, now I'm just wondering if I'll be able to blow holes in the floor/ceiling... Probably not, but it's fun to dream.

It's like you've never seen a spy movie in your life.

Getting in through the floor of the offices just above your target is, like, a necessity.  My mind would be blown if this isn't i.

[MrWiggles]

Oh I was talking about the X-Com remakes that aren't X-Com because you can't blow holes in walls.  I didn't know destructable environments made it into Subversion--it makes me tremendously happy though!

Oh yea, I read prt 19. It should be more or less destructible environment from what I've come to understand, it wont be like Red Fraction though, you won't be able to dig into the ground, (though if sewers gets implemented you should be able to get burrow into them.)

Something I don't expect to be possible is to be able to do a demolition job, and take out an entire building. If they keep with the simple physic model, then I suspect to blow up a building, we'll be a fair amount of work. As in you'll have to chop down the lowest floor like a tree.

But who knows, maybe we'll get a post about simple simulation of super structures.

But yea, for X-Com, it'd come down to how combat plays out. The other X-Com goodness, such as morale, mind control, and berserking should be handleable through scripting.

The other aspects, could probably also be handle through scripting, but that may not need to happen, depending if the game has any notion of character stats.