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[Draco18s]

Vague? Are we talking about the same books here? O.o

What happens when you spend Edge to reroll a failure?

Can you use it when you glitch?  Does the state "glitch" persist even after the 1s are rerolled?

The rules are pretty damn vague in some places.

Is cyberlimb armor "averaged" the same way cyberlimb Strength is?

I want a game that feels like ShadowRun, I don't want one that plays like the table top game (especially when it concern's the dev's favorite house rules).

[Soulwynd]

The rules are pretty damn vague in some places.

Sure not everything is covered, but I don't know any rpg that covers everything, the gm always has to use his judgment for some things.

Thus the errata, revisions, and house rules for those very specific cases.

I want a game that feels like PLAYING ShadowRun, I don't want one that simply has elves on harleys.

Fixed for my case.

I mean, if you want to fluff Subversion with the shadowrun theme, go for it. I might even play, since I like the theme, but I'd rather to see Subversion (Or any other game someone converts to shadowrun) using the theme, fluff, -and- the ruleset of any of the editions if someone is going in that direction.

[Draco18s]

I mean, if you want to fluff Subversion with the shadowrun theme, go for it. I might even play, since I like the theme, but I'd rather to see Subversion (Or any other game someone converts to shadowrun) using the theme, fluff, -and- the ruleset of any of the editions if someone is going in that direction.

Oh sure, a mod on Subversion would need more than going "lol, elves" I just mean that implementing elves, magic, ect. would be no more difficult than implementing any other custom content.

The only thing that would be tricky would be critter pathfinding for critters larger than human size (e.g. dragons) as the pathfinder wouldn't be set up to deal with it.

[puke]

i would have thought the difficulty would have been implementing astral security, spirits, wards, invisibility, levitation, mind control, and social engineering.

I guess I never considered large creatures to be a dealbreaker, but your right, it would probalby screw up the pathfinding.

I'm mostly hoping that there is some kind of campaign mode where you build up resources by doing jobs, and can improve your team.  something like syndicate.  maybe with some resource management where you have to spend money on larger abstract assets, sort of like the town improvement options in Assassin's Creed 2, or the realestate acquisitions in Vice City or whatever.  Maybe with a requirement to play defensive missions, as well.

[puke]

Vague? Are we talking about the same books here? O.o

Yeah, seriously.  It's one of the most painfully detailed games I've played.  It isnt absured as GURPS with all its optional rules and one-second rounds, and nothing is quite as over the top as Phoenix Command, but my god if they done have detailed rules for EVERY little thing you might want to do.

It makes it an amazingly flexable game, but I'd rather get that flexability playing a rules light system like BRP, Unisystem, or Fate.  SR as written opens the doors for all kinds of crazy munchkinry and rules lawyering and, unless you like that sort of thing, you end up throwing half the rules out just to have fun playing it.

[Soulwynd]

The way the main character (you) hack might be a deal breaker as well, because it would have to be adapted to the shadowrun's matrix. But as suggested, it wouldn't have to be a total conversion, I suppose, specially if the gameplay of the game turns out to be good.

So far I'm really happy with the fact that the city and the buildings are procedurally generated. This means that if the game is fun, the re-playability value will be immense.

[forsaken1111]

Personally, I just want access to that procedural generator.

It would be extremely useful for roleplaying game purposes. Instantly generate cities, small towns, villages, etc.

[puke]

So far I'm really happy with the fact that the city and the buildings are procedurally generated. This means that if the game is fun, the re-playability value will be immense.

You might think so, but I wouldnt put money on it.  I expected Spore to have replay value due to its procedural generation, but frankly I can still pick up a game like Joust today and have fun whereas I'll probably never touch Spore again.

Procedural generation has promise, but gameplay can still be repetative if the buildings and missions are similar enough.  The best kind of procedural generation is in games like Nethack, but compare that to something like Diablo which still has random levels but nowhere near the replayability.  whats the difference?  I'm not really sure.  It is the same basic formula, and Diablo was certainly fun the first couple times I played it.  But it does not have the staying power after 20-30 play throughs.  Will Subversions gameplay be innovative and fun enough to sustain it?  i've got no idea.  lets hope so.

[puke]

Personally, I just want access to that procedural generator.

It would be extremely useful for roleplaying game purposes. Instantly generate cities, small towns, villages, etc.

I grabed this program off of a BBS some 20 years ago, i think it was called "game master" which means it's pretty much impossible to find a trace of through web searches now.  Basically it created an entire galaxy for you: randomly generating star charts, solar system maps, individual planet details and terrain maps, road networks, city locations, city district maps, street level maps of each district, and floorplans for each level of a building.

It was prone to making lots of 20-500 story buildings, even something that was supposed to be a "bar" was frequently like 15 stories tall.  And individual floor plans were just a few random lines, but it was still pretty cool.

You could also make characters and vehicles and starships and weapons and things.  You couldnt actually play it, it was like a GM resource.  Would have been great for Traveller or something, but I dont think it used any standard rule set.  Just a bunch of stuff some dude made up.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Screw elves on Harleys!  Give me trolls on Harleys!  Troll Cat totem shamans on Harleys!

[dragonshardz]

If I recall correctly, Subversion sounds remarkably similar to the planned sequel for Uplink - let me take a look around...

*digs around in his HDD*

Yeah, the gamebible that came with Uplink mentions plans for a sequel to Uplink where you are the hacker for a team of infiltrators.

And then there the Wikipedia article.

[Sowelu]

Screw elves on Harleys!  Give me trolls on Harleys!  Troll Cat totem shamans on Harleys!

One of my favorite pieces of Shadowrun art ever is this flavor art plate in the middle of 2nd Ed. that's supposed to be a movie poster.  It's got like five guys crammed into this TINY CAR including an ork and a troll.

[Soulwynd]

So far I'm really happy with the fact that the city and the buildings are procedurally generated. This means that if the game is fun, the re-playability value will be immense.

You might think so, but I wouldnt put money on it.  I expected Spore to have replay value due to its procedural generation, but frankly I can still pick up a game like Joust today and have fun whereas I'll probably never touch Spore again.

*points at the big red letters*
Spore isn't fun, Puke, that's the main issue, the procedural generation was fine.

If I recall correctly, Subversion sounds remarkably similar to the planned sequel for Uplink - let me take a look around...

It is the [spiritual] sequel of uplink. It is said so in one (or more) of the blogs.

Screw elves on Harleys!  Give me trolls on Harleys!  Troll Cat totem shamans on Harleys!

One of my favorite pieces of Shadowrun art ever is this flavor art plate in the middle of 2nd Ed. that's supposed to be a movie poster.  It's got like five guys crammed into this TINY CAR including an ork and a troll.

Yup, that one is great. Kind of silly, but great. I've always been fond of the cover/back art  (Except 3rd ed core) and some of the archetype art. There are some awesome fan art for shadowrun as well.

[Draco18s]

i would have thought the difficulty would have been implementing astral security, spirits, wards, invisibility, levitation, mind control, and social engineering.

They're already planning social engineering.

Astral security is a little tricky.  But all you need is another flag (which makes astral entities invisible from non)

Spirits are just more pac-men wandering the map, possibly with the +Astral flag.

Wards are just like any other impassable barrier (or other security system), really.  Just with a different "tool" needed to bypass.

Mind control (depending on form) is basically an "I win" button for Social Engineering, but possibly with other side effects.

Yup, that one is great. Kind of silly, but great. I've always been fond of the cover/back art  (Except 3rd ed core) and some of the archetype art. There are some awesome fan art for shadowrun as well.

If you refine that search just a little you can find this little gem, which is a former character of mine.

[darkedone02]

I like playing hacking games like Uplink and hacker: Evolution, although I wish there was another game like Uplink however more realistic mission's and affects upon the world instead of a news report about it. I want to crash the whole economy down and see some impact, and some police trying to find out who really did it.