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[MagicJuggler]

My suggestion is that weapons shouldn't be their own distinct entity of item, but that an item should be capable of having weapon-attack tags on them. E.g. suppose I wanted to bash my opponent in by chucking barrels at him. We would add a tag to barrel called [Weapon_Attack] and input the rest of the parameters as normal. Additionally, some weapons should be capable of multiple attack types...e.g. a Halberd should be usable for bashing, slashing, stabbing, etc. Additionally, more tokens would be awesome: Examples include.

[Min_Skill]: The minimum required skill level to be able to use this attack. Can represent more advanced moves opening up to skilled fighters.
[Max_Skill]: The maximum required skill level before this attack is disabled. Represents unlearning bad moves/upgrading to better ones.
[Reach:x]: The range of the weapon in tiles. Range 0 represents the attack hitting the user. Range 1 would be a standard attack. Range 2 or 3 would represent extended weapons like pikes/whips. Greater than that would be marksman weapons.
[StrengthReach:x]: A form of reach where the maximum range is the strength of the user, multiplied by x.
[Radius:x]: An attack of this kind will hit everything within x tiles of the attack point.
[Radius_Hole: x] Like Radius, except the tile of attack is not affected.
[Cone:x]: Attacks will spread forth in a cone of the angle specified (will make rough approximates for tiles).
[line]: Attack hits in a line until it hits a wall.
[link]: A second damage type is added to the weapon. E.g. for poisoned blades.

Suggestions?

[Neonivek]

Instead of a "Minimum" skill thing... how about a "Learning" method where at the minimum skill level your character has a chance every once in a while to learn the move.

Though I guess there should be two...

1) The Chance to learn it naturally as well as the minimum skill
and
2) The chance to learn it via teaching as well as the minimum skill

[Tormy]

Some good ideas there, but for example: Weapon radius+Radius Hole/Weapon Reach+Strength Reach makes no sense. 1 "tile" is infinite big in DF right now.

[Granite26]

I like the idea in theory, although not necessarily your implementation details.  It could certainly be used to 'fix' the throwing weapon issues

[MagicJuggler]

Radius and Radius_Hole are mutually exclusive, but Reach+Strength Reach would mean there is a minimum range and that the rest would be determined by the user. E.g. a bow would be capable of shooting 10 by default but for every something x of strength the user had, they could fire it up to an additional tile away...

[The Minister]

Really cool ideas.  Could you give a couple of examples of weapons that use all these tokens so that we can see how you envision this being implemented?

[MagicJuggler]

Here's an example; a Halberd that can either stab with its spear-end, slash with its axe-end, or perform a deadly spin attack once its user reaches Legendary skill.

[ITEM:ITEM_WEAPON_Halberd]
[NAME:halberd:halberds]
[WEAPON_ATTACK]
[ATTACK_NAME: Thrust Spearhead]
[RANGE: 2]
[DAMAGE:100:PIERCE]
[WEIGHT:40]
[SKILL:SPEAR]
[CRIT_BOOST:2]
[TWO_HANDED:5]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[WEAPON_ATTACK]
[ATTACK_NAME: Swing Axe-head]
[MIN_SKILL: Novice]
[MAX_SKILL: Legendary]
[Range: 2]
[DAMAGE:110:Cutting]
[WEIGHT:40]
[SKILL:AXE]
[CRIT_BOOST:0]
[TWO_HANDED:5]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[WEAPON_ATTACK]
[ATTACK_NAME: Spin Attack]
[MIN_SKILL: Legendary]
[Range: 2][Radius_Hole]
[DAMAGE:110:Cutting]
[WEIGHT:40]
[SKILL:AXE]
[CRIT_BOOST:2]
[TWO_HANDED:5]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]

[Neonivek]

I personally think that you should seperate Melee Length with Ranged Length since Melee may need to be more in depth due to a Mount and Grapple system. (By Length I am refering to Reach)

[Granite26]

That may be a little bit complicated.  Why not start by using attack descriptors (a la the martial arts moves).

Another excellent use for this would be to separate weapon skills for the ranged weapons.

[The Minister]

It would also be cool if you could define particular attacks to be available only to particular species, so that different creatures would use the same weapon in different ways.  That way you wouldn't have to make pikes completely off limits to dwarves, but they wouldn't be able to use them as effectively as other weapons. 

And it would be cool if different attacks could be defined in this way for creatures that improve their wrestling skill or other relevant skill.  This could make for some really interesting megabeasts that are successful in world gen.

[MagicJuggler]

Hmm, a tag [Skill reqs] that would require combinations of skills/attributes to unlock a move maybe...

[korora]

A lot of those tags are repeated for every attack; it seems like some of them could be pulled outside of the attack definition and into the item definition.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[ITEM:ITEM_WEAPON_Halberd]
[NAME:halberd:halberds]
[WEIGHT:40]
[TWO_HANDED:5]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]

[WEAPON_ATTACK]
[ATTACK_NAME: Thrust Spearhead]
[RANGE: 2]
[DAMAGE:100:PIERCE]
[SKILL:SPEAR]
[CRIT_BOOST:2]

[WEAPON_ATTACK]
[ATTACK_NAME: Swing Axe-head]
[MIN_SKILL: Novice]
[MAX_SKILL: Legendary]
[Range: 2]
[DAMAGE:110:Cutting]
[SKILL:AXE]
[CRIT_BOOST:0]

[WEAPON_ATTACK]
[ATTACK_NAME: Spin Attack]
[MIN_SKILL: Legendary]
[Range: 2][Radius_Hole]
[DAMAGE:110:Cutting]
[SKILL:AXE]
[CRIT_BOOST:2]

I can see two-handed varying by attack for some weapons, but I don't think your attack is likely to change any material properties.

Another thing is that you might want to re-use some attacks on other weapons, so maybe you should define attacks separately, and just tag weapons with which attacks they can use.  Then you could reuse the "Thrust Spearhead" attack on a spear, for example.



Actually, come to think of it, I'm not sure it's best to work from the weapon side.  Why not define attacks, and specify requirements for appropriate weapons/users?  For example, you could have a basic Stab attack that requires a pointy object, or a Bludgeon attack that can use anything heavy. Maybe you could base attack stats on the properties of the object, like making the range depend on the length of the weapon, etc.

Yes, you'd need to have every item in the game tagged with descriptors.  But that's probably going in anyways, and once it's done you can write up an attack and not worry about changing all the weapon raws.  Much less work overall, I think.

[Tormy]

Radius and Radius_Hole are mutually exclusive, but Reach+Strength Reach would mean there is a minimum range and that the rest would be determined by the user. E.g. a bow would be capable of shooting 10 by default but for every something x of strength the user had, they could fire it up to an additional tile away...

Ah okay, gotcha, this is okay from a moddig perspective in that case.
Melee weapons should be only able to reach & hit targets on the adjecent tiles. [However if X player would like to change this "rule" in the RAWs, I don't see any problems with that.]

[Neonivek]

You know, if you take away moves from weapons...

And instead add those tokens to the weapon itself as an adjustment to moves a character can come up with.

Then you could create a proceedural Martial art system!

*Neonivek is too lazy to make a full post about that currently*

[The Minister]

I don't really know how charging works, but in a system like this it could also be designed for each weapon as such an attack.  This would make it easy to make some weapons really effective when used in charging and other weapons not as effective.

Other things that could be customized for particular attacks could include:
Knock back distance,
knock back chance,
chance to knock opponent down,
chance to be knocked down,
a number of turns to prepare to make attack,
number of turns to recover after making attack,
chance to make opponent vomit,
required size to make attack,
required body part to make attack,
etc.

I'm sure there are many more.

It would also be really cool to be able to input a few text descriptions of executions of attacks for fights in adventure mode.