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[Footkerchief]

^^^ Yes.  Also, the skill type is like the most trivial part of the whole proposal.  It does not matter at all and would be completely trivial to change in the raws.  The implementation details of explosive thrown weapons are like a million times as complicated.

[StrayCat]

Blargh! Gonna write in watercannons and thrown grenades then after a good night's sleep. And you don't have a military skill that says "throw!" like with a throwing axe or a javelin. Don't exist. Not yet.

[Demonic Gophers]

The skill exists; it's the same skill used in adventure mode.  You just can't order your soldiers to use it.  And that may change in the next update, if one mods in a weapon that uses the throwing skill.

[Random832]

On greek fire: It was lost. That suggests it's not easy for medieval groups to independently discover. You can let DF have it, or you can not, and there's a basic game mechanic / game balance problem with "water that is on fire", so it's easier not to have it.

Molotov Boozebombs, on the other hand... (hmm - at the still, 5 units of alcohol to 2-3 units of ethanol fuel, and those can be put in bottles for one-at-a-time firing from the catapult - but I'm getting ahead of myself)

[StrayCat]

Yes, it was lost. I'm betting it was just as difficult for the greeks to discover it as it was for later peoples. Didn't stop the greeks though. Through the inquisitive power of setting things on fire to see what will happen, science prevails.

And goblins run around screaming as their flesh bubbles off.

[MagicJuggler]

I would like to see Dwarven beer useable as a liquid. The idea being the Create Pond zone should be expandable to determine both the depth and the type of the liquid. I want boozesplosions damnit!

[Skid]

Heh.

1. Make a gigantic pit full of booze.
2. Float a raft with some nobles in the middle.
3. Add magma to booze.
4. Stir well.
5. Win the space race several centuries early.

[Luke_Prowler]

I think that the range of an explosive pack shouldn't be determined by the quality of the powder, other wise you end up flooding your fort when you just wanted to breach the wall of a underground river (unless that's what you want, then more power to you). How about setting the power 1 - 5. 1 would be... here, let me draw a pic

Code: [Select]

1:
 X
XXX
 X

2:
XXX
XXX
XXX

3:
    X
   XXX
X XXXXX X
   XXX
    X

I'm sure you can think what a level 4 and 5 would look like/can do

[StrayCat]

Already have this covered by shaped mining charges.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To give you a general Idea:

Shaped Charge: Medium Level of Mining Charge Proficiency
Modify X axis with: h, k (Up to Five squares Covered)
Modify Y Axis with: u, m (Up To Five squares Covered)
Modify Z Axis with: o, l (Up to Three Squares Covered)



Shaped Charge: High Level of Mining Charge Proficiency
Click to fill in Three Dimensional Box
Max X Axis: Ten Squares Filled In
Max Y Axis: Ten Squares Filled In
Max Z Axis: Three Squares Filled In


Shaped Charge: Highest Level of Mining Charge Proficiency
Click to fill in Three Dimensional Box
Max X Axis: Ten Squares Filled In
Max Y Axis: Ten Squares Filled In
Max Z Axis: Five Squares Filled In


It'd use something like that 3-D mining viewer in 40d we have right now, in my mind, because I don't see how else it'd work visually.

And aside from that, I really like having low grade mining explosives and trap explosives with unpredictable mining results. Because dammit Jim, we need to have our landscapes covered in more craters than the surface of the moon!

[MagicJuggler]

I think blackpowder in general would work best as a liquid one could walk on top of automatically (e.g. no drowning in blackpowder unless you get buried in it and there's a roof over you), that one could use the zone commands to "create pond: blackpowder. Depth=x/7". This would allow one to create the old shaped charge idea by pouring blackpowder into a 1x1 channel dug, and then lighting the fuse, or with Newtonian mechanics allowing one to create old-fashioned breechloaders.

[Foa]

On greek fire: It was lost. That suggests it's not easy for medieval groups to independently discover. You can let DF have it, or you can not, and there's a basic game mechanic / game balance problem with "water that is on fire", so it's easier not to have it.

Greek Fire does still exist, many sources cracked down on some of it's ingredients, but only the Science Channel ( And it's related channels ) Crew know how to make it.

So it'll take ass racking patience to crack it's secrets.


So what ever happened to fire warheads ( warheads = ballistae bolt ) , the explosive warheads?
And also do the fire warheads leave a wake of fire?

[StrayCat]

Dwarves are such workaholics they stay up for weeks and pass out and sleep for a week to mine through a mountain. I think if their alchemists display a fraction of their brethrens dedication and transfer that to some volatile experimentation, they'll be cooking with napalm in no time Foa. If some Science Channel Crew humans can make it, freakin' magical dwarves who fight dragons and undead fish that drag dwarves to a watery grave can figure it out.

I think that warheads is a biiit too far. As in, too damned far by far if we're leaving a fiery trail. How'sabout I put in explosive Ballista bolts? Solid bolt, hollowed out tip, maybe... 5 gunpowder inside. Reload time'll be drastically slower than normal reload due to even the dwarves handling it with care. That should put into mind what happens if someone drops one of those. Maybe a team of dwarves loading...

MJ: Uh, breachloaders? No guns. I believe there's a no guns thing going on. -Yes- the Chinese had dun'em, they've done a lot of stuff that goes boom. However, I think it best if we stick to exploding death and perhaps the prevention thereof, eh? Liking the Zone Command idea though, very simple, and you can do it on a single tile basis. Definitely liking that. I'll put that in. By the by though, it won't function like a real shaped charge. it's just a bunch of boxes of powder that's going to blow up. You won't be able to control it or get the same thorough result as the shaped charge though.

[MagicJuggler]

A shaped charge is very simple though; the Mitzay-Schardin effect states that the majority of an explosive's force when given the choice between a rounded area and a flat plane will go off in the flat plane. Combined with extra reinforcing of the rounded edge, it should be simple to create a primitive claymore.

The breechloader was actually the original form of cannon before the arquebus came into being; the main problem with it was the inability to properly seal it, making self-destruction all the liklier. Once the interrupted screw was made however, that became a moot point.

But LOTS of gunpowder would be nice. The explosive strength would depend on the quality of the powder (e.g. corned vs coarse, etc), and the quantity, so while a 1/7 powder might form a tiny spark that would ignite adjacent powder tiles, a 7/7 powder would KABOOM!

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

This is another obvious suggestion that everyone and their brother's retarded dog suggests, but surely stuff in DF could advance.
With a toggle on whether you want it or not.

Tech advance Y-N sort of thing.
Oh, and you could choose whether tech advance starts when you start playing, or from a specific point in worldgen.

[Jake]

Further to Maggarg's comments, I've got a few ideas for putting together some firearms for those who want them.  All of these should be achievable as soon as a couple more things cease to be hard-coded.

Hand Cannon: Ammunition made with one unit of gunpowder, one stack of bolts or arrows, one unit of cloth (placeholder for parchment) and one unit of thread. Not more than a 33% range and damage bonus over a crossbow for about half the rate of fire and a big accuracy penalty. Compensates by doing more damage in melee than a crossbow, and are the only firearm that can be made out of stone; I could even imagine fashioning one out of a hollowed-out log with reasonable success.
Historically, hand cannons were simply a long metal tube, open at one end with a small hole for a fuse at the other, with various sorts of stock and no sights to speak of. Individual powder bags are a slight anachronism, but the game engine doesn't really allow for powder horns.

Arquebus: Next stage onwards, about equal to a crossbow in melee and maybe another 20% increase in power over a hand cannon for the same reload time and crossbow-level accuracy. However, its ammunition is made by substituting a stack of bullets for arrows or bolts in the above recipe, and bullets can be made in stacks of about a hundred from any metal; the downside is there's no chance whatsoever of recovering spent ammunition.
I use the term 'arquebus' to represent anything using the old matchlock system, which includes a few early muskets; the line between the two isn't hugely clear anyway.

Blunderbuss: Similar to above, only with much-reduced range and accuracy and Gore damage instead of Pierce, maybe a 10% damage bonus over an aquebus. Ammunition made with buckshot, which is made in stacks of 150.

Musket: The last word in DF small arms (bringing in breech-loading and rifling would probably be a bit much). Twice as accurate and powerful as a crossbow, 50% better range, and does Pierce damage in melee. Ammunition needs only bullets, cloth/parchment and powder to make.
Basically, anything with a flintlock or similar action; since there's no way yet to assemble a weapon from several components, we'll just assume they found a stand-in for an actual piece of flint on maps where it doesn't exist. And for the purposes of this exercise, Urist McWeaponsmith cancels Forge plug bayonet; interrupted by realisation he might as well just weld a spearhead on under the muzzle and have done with it.

Shotgun: Flintlock equivalent of the blunderbuss, comparable attributes.

Cannon: The Gunpowder Age's answer to the ballista; same flat trajectory and about as accurate, but much more powerful and longer-ranged. Cannonballs can be made from stone as well as metal, ammunition assembled from one ball, five units of powder and one bag. I think we'll gloss over how they light them before flintlocks come in -tinderboxes, maybe- for the time being.

Howitzer/Mortar: Equivalent to the catapault, only a lot longer-ranged, can place a shot just about anywhere on a medium-sized map. Shoots in a very high arc, dropping its payload from a tremendous height, and not hugely accurate either; if we ever see the day when goblins start bringing their own siege engines, this is the one that will ruin your entire day if you can't fight your way up to it or take it out with counter-battery fire.