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Author Topic: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?  (Read 13937 times)

martinuzz

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2008, 05:59:26 am »


Huh?  Meat is simply easier to digest than plant matter.  Specifically, herbivores have longer digestive tracts because it takes a long time for THEIR symbiotic bacteria to break down cellulose, which is also "rotting" by your definition. 

Grazing animals have extra stomachs to process hardened cellulose. Fruits, roots, nuts and such contain lots of easy digestable nutrients.

The proteins in meat are in general harder to digest than much plant material. (measured in the ratio of the amount of energy it takes to break down the proteins to their amino-acids and other consistants/ amount of energy gain, stored energy in body mass included)

EDIT: I have to add, that comparing cellulose digestion and meat protein digestion is quite out of place here. We humans cook, fry, boil and whatsoever our food, which destroys cellulose membranes and denaturalizes some of the meats proteins (which makes them easier to digest).
That is why we can eat many hard-leafed plants without having extra stomachs, and why meat can be a good source of extra nutrition.

It's the high amount of fat that makes the meat so nutricious in total.

The thing is, the bacteria that decompose meat, have a tendency of being harmful to the body as well. They are intrusive and alien to the body. While the bactreria that reside in our stomach and other intestines live in symbiosis with our body. That's why meat should leave the body as fast as possible.
There is a correlation between eating meat often and colon cancer. (heightened risk through repeated inflammation)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 06:07:12 am by martinuzz »
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thvaz

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2008, 06:08:07 am »

I eat only stones, therefore I have a higher moral ground than all these vegans.

 ::)
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McDoomhammer

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2008, 06:17:41 am »

I eat only stones, therefore I have a higher moral ground than all these vegans.

 ::)

Steady on.
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Onlyhestands

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2008, 06:41:03 am »

Don't birds "eat" stones (as in put them in their gullet) to help digestion?

Anyways I don't have any problem eating meat, and I hunt.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2008, 06:42:20 am »

Grazing animals have extra stomachs to process hardened cellulose. Fruits, roots, nuts and such contain lots of easy digestable nutrients.

The proteins in meat are in general harder to digest than much plant material. (measured in the ratio of the amount of energy it takes to break down the proteins to their amino-acids and other consistants/ amount of energy gain, stored energy in body mass included)

EDIT: I have to add, that comparing cellulose digestion and meat protein digestion is quite out of place here. We humans cook, fry, boil and whatsoever our food, which destroys cellulose membranes and denaturalizes some of the meats proteins (which makes them easier to digest).
That is why we can eat many hard-leafed plants without having extra stomachs, and why meat can be a good source of extra nutrition.

It's the high amount of fat that makes the meat so nutricious in total.

The thing is, the bacteria that decompose meat, have a tendency of being harmful to the body as well. They are intrusive and alien to the body. While the bactreria that reside in our stomach and other intestines live in symbiosis with our body. That's why meat should leave the body as fast as possible.
There is a correlation between eating meat often and colon cancer. (heightened risk through repeated inflammation)

Yes, proteins take more energy to break down.  That doesn't mean it takes more TIME.  What does this have to do with "rotting"?

Humans also eat meat, vegetables and grains raw.  Cooking does NOT break down individual cellulose molecules or make it digestible for humans -- it just softens structures made of cellulose.

Gut flora can be harmful if they escape the digestive tract, yes, but calling them "intrusive and alien" is wrong -- the symbiotic relationship predates humanity and we've evolved to make use of them.  And they play as much of a role in digesting carbs as they do protein.

As for cancer, ironically, two of the things you mentioned, saturated fat and cooking, are thought to be the main reasons why red meat consumption correlates with cancer, as you'll see from these articles.
http://www.cancerproject.org/survival/cancer_facts/meat.php
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/healthday/071211/high-meat-consumption-linked-to-heightened-cancer-risk.htm

Honestly I think you just heard this bizarre "meat ROTS in your stomach" talking point somewhere and latched onto it.  Bacteria help digest pretty much everything you eat.
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martinuzz

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2008, 07:07:06 am »

I should have written more clearly.
With 'the bacteria that decompose meat', I did not mean our gut flora, but the bacteria that come with the meat.
Even though we cook meat, bacteria persist, especially with meat dishes that prefer medium, or even raw meat.

No disrespect to our gut flora intended. ;)
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

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http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

blakyoshi7

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2008, 06:15:28 pm »

I did not mean our gut flora, but the bacteria that come with the meat.
Which has a negligible effect thanks to our internal systems that exist solely to prevent such things from harming us.
I fail to see what your point is here.

But back to the original topic, please:
Cats are an invasive species, and overpopulated. The 'catsplosion' is a real-world phenomena. Peru has simply figured out the "kittens rhyme with mittens" strategy for dealing with it   :D

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Pilsu

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2008, 06:35:23 pm »

Milk contains enough B12 to see you through the day

Don't whine about bovine treatment if you use animal products, that's just hypocritical. Being killed is the least of their problems and you know, would change absolutely nothing since cattle would still be needed in large quantities. Then there's the unfortunate fact that cows, much like humans, only produce milk after having offspring so calves are a necessity to maintain the resource. And since we wouldn't be having them for a snack anymore, they'd.. I don't know, be released to imaginary vegetarian meadows where they live happily ever after. Instead of you know, killed and ground for fertilizer and dog food

Face it, they're screwed. The milk you drink is the result of a mother's infant being dragged away shortly after birth as she desperately cries for her baby

Mmmm, milk. I love the taste of suffering  :-*
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sneakey pete

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2008, 06:39:18 pm »

Cattle should be strictly placed in grazing areas where the soil or climate is not suited for any economic farming. I think that letting cattle graze in open feilds of scrubland or whatever satisfies any ethical issue... It would be cattle doing what they do, roaming around eating. I can't think of a more fulfilling life a cow could have then that.

Last i checked, cattle aren't grown by throwing them into pens with grain feed. At least, not anywhere here in Australia.
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Pilsu

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2008, 06:55:31 pm »

Last i checked, cattle aren't grown by throwing them into pens with grain feed. At least, not anywhere here in Australia.

You have nothing but frivolous space in that god forsaken underworld. Not to mention the cows don't need to be sheltered from the cold
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sneakey pete

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2008, 07:25:50 pm »

Hehe

Oh well, we'll keep eating meat while you other folks can go vegetarian!
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Tormy

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2008, 07:30:22 pm »

Hehe

Oh well, we'll keep eating meat while you other folks can go vegetarian!

Eh, hardcore vegetarians are crazy if they think that it's good for their health if they ain't eating any meat/eggs, plus they refuse to drink milk even. That's actually bad for their health, in fact very bad.
Not to mention that what is better than fried chicken?!  ;D
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McDoomhammer

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2008, 07:34:46 pm »

Lobster.

Eugh, what's worse than KFC?
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inaluct

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2008, 07:48:34 pm »

Anyway, I find myself agreeing the most with Vaftrudner out of everyone here. Milk is awesome. I drink large amounts of milk and pride myself on the knowledge that because I am lactose tolerant, if I ever find myself stranded on a grassy island with a bunch of dairy cows, I will not starve.

It could happen.  :P

I'm a vegetarian, and milk is the only thing keeping me from going vegan. You can't take that away from me. It's all I have left.

I'm willing to risk the Crohn's disease. I have no family history of it, and besides, it's way better than getting BSE.
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Vaftrudner

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Re: Peru inhabited by Dwarves?
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2008, 08:45:39 pm »

Don't whine about bovine treatment if you use animal products, that's just hypocritical.
Please read my post about the kind of milk I drink, and what I did when I came to a country where I did not find sufficient proof that calves weren't ripped away from their mothers. I wouldn't normally whine this much about me and my life, except you're actually attacking me ;)

And I haven't read a single argument from you why B12 fortificated food would be a bad thing, except you're not "born with a silver spoon in your mouth". Huh. What?
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