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[Di]

Just what did Toady change about the game?
I missed it.

Well, people like to say that after this thread the creatures that [CAN_LEARN] were made unbutcherable (with dwarven ethics) and mermaid raws no longer had value multiplier. (Elves, gobbos and humans could butchered back then as well, and in a fact dwarves did that automatically. Actually goblin bone crafts comprised the majority of non-rock trade goods. It's just that their value was rather low, so they never got that much attention.)

However the next version after this thread was huge release of .31.01 which was almost new game. The entire way of how creatures were represented in game has changed and the most of the tags responsible for mermaid phenomena became obsolete.
So, to me it seems that mermaid price was lost\revised in the process of complete re-factoring of raws. And the inability of butchering sentients was just a result of development of entity system. Unless someone has a quote of Toady on the mermaid business.

But nevertheless, mermaids don't have anything interesting about them anymore, the most effective means  of capturing oceanic creatures were developed in whale-hunting thread and new morality horizons were reached since then in other well-known threads. Thus this thread has now only a historical value and belongs to the archive aka pages that aren't first. It's not like they get erased around here.

[forsaken1111]

this thread got Toady to change the game specifically for it.

Yeah I'm gonna need a source from Toady substantiating this wild ass claim before I believe it.

[flame99]

this thread got Toady to change the game specifically for it.

Yeah I'm gonna need a source from Toady substantiating this wild ass claim before I believe it.

I haven't seen a direct quote from Toady, but:

This is a moot point, however, as merpeople are intelligent enough that dwarves refuse to butcher them, making merperson genocide in the name of profit absolutely useless; although, nothing is stopping you from committing merperson genocide just for the fun of it. This happened because the game's creator read the thread and was sufficiently scared by the prospect.

[forsaken1111]

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

[mross]

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

In that case, why not just alter all creatures' raw entries to have arbitrarily high value value modifiers?

[slothen]

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

In that case, why not just alter all creatures' raw entries to have arbitrarily high value value modifiers?

They decompose into an unbutcherable skeleton.  To get bones (of anything that leaves a skeleton) without butchering, you need to kill them in a way that guarantees dismemberment.  Then only the body will become a skeleton while the limbs and head decompose into a skull and indivdual "bones."  This is how you can get the occasional goblin bone crafts/bolts.

And yeah, if you want to do this, add value multipliers in the raws.

[forsaken1111]

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

In that case, why not just alter all creatures' raw entries to have arbitrarily high value value modifiers?

In my mind, changing the civ's ethics to allow something which should be possible is different from artificially inflating the value of the resulting good, but sure if you want to do that go for it.

[expwnent]

I agree not all mods are the same, but a large part of the novelty of the original idea was that it was possible in completely unmodded DF.

[MDFification]

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

In that case, why not just alter all creatures' raw entries to have arbitrarily high value value modifiers?

In my mind, changing the civ's ethics to allow something which should be possible is different from artificially inflating the value of the resulting good, but sure if you want to do that go for it.

My internal modder is telling me 'because it would require a regen of the world for changes in entity.txt to take effect' but my everything else is saying 'stick with vanilla'.

[forsaken1111]

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

In that case, why not just alter all creatures' raw entries to have arbitrarily high value value modifiers?

In my mind, changing the civ's ethics to allow something which should be possible is different from artificially inflating the value of the resulting good, but sure if you want to do that go for it.

My internal modder is telling me 'because it would require a regen of the world for changes in entity.txt to take effect' but my everything else is saying 'stick with vanilla'.

but... but... minced goblin cakes and unicorn steaks!

[mross]

What was the point of farming mermaids in the first place? Expensive bones? So what, you can make a 10x10 plot of quarry bushes and have infinite wealth forever with no effort. People really have to LARP this hard to convince themselves the game is challenging or interesting?

[Dunamisdeos]

Probably because it's extravagantly boring to deliberately build a fantasy universe where cooked ferns are the predominant source of wealth equality.

[HmH]

What was the point of farming mermaids in the first place? Expensive bones? So what, you can make a 10x10 plot of quarry bushes and have infinite wealth forever with no effort. People really have to LARP this hard to convince themselves the game is challenging or interesting?

Money was not the reason, it was an excuse. People farmed mermaids because they could.

Besides, the quarry bush roast and trap component exploits were only popularized after DF2010 came out, I think. They were somehow linked to the booze roast exploit, that much I remember: they appeared either when it became well-known, or when it became impossible due to early-DF2010 bugs. They weren't all that popular around the time this thread was started.

[Craftsdwarf boi]

A certain human entity:Dwarf fortress is art!
Community(dwarves):*Constructs mermaid concentration camps so that one could harvest their bones*

[HmH]

A certain human entity:Dwarf fortress is art!
Community(dwarves):*Constructs mermaid concentration camps so that one could harvest their bones*

Art demands sactifices.