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[lumin]

... Killed by frogs?  Like, evil demonic mutant death frogs?

Or ordinary harmless ribbiting common-or-garden amphibians?

See, that's what I hate about MUDs, you can't take them seriously.  How are you supposed to sensibly roleplay in a world where humans cannot walk abroad for fear of one-pound pond dwellers?

Well they seemed like the ribbiting kind.  I didn't survive long enough to notice if they were as big as cars though.  I was only 8 years old though.

I thought that once you left your body in Dartmud, you died permanently?

I like what Dartmud is trying to do, with the trade thing, but when the player-base tells me that fighting is not even worth it for the first 20 hours of the game or so, I get turned off by that.

I still prefer MUDs with the combat as the focus, not the sideshow.  If I wanted to play a game where crafting and building stuff was key, then I would go play Cantr since it at least allows me to log off while I'm working so I don't have to keep pressing the same keys over and over.

I still haven't found the "ideal" MUD yet.  Maybe somebody could help me find one with the following requirements:

* Huge world: 20,000+ rooms.
* Multiple starting cities to choose from.
* Food/water is required to survive.
* Serious Swords & Sorcery theme.
* Combat focused with crafting on the side.
* Restricted PK.
* Medium to large player-base online (50 - 200).
* Multiple races, with stark differences between them.
* Multiple classes or guilds (including multiple sub-classes) .
* Need light source (or infravision) to see in the dark.
* Role-play encouraged not enforced.
* Aging system.
* Great newbie tutorial.
* Save on quit (no inns required for saving equipment)

It would seem like there would be a lot of MUDs out there with all the requirements above, but I have yet to find one that has them all.

[wallish]

I still haven't found the "ideal" MUD yet.  Maybe somebody could help me find one with the following requirements:

* Huge world: 20,000+ rooms.
* Multiple starting cities to choose from.
* Food/water is required to survive.
* Serious Swords & Sorcery theme.
* Combat focused with crafting on the side.
* Restricted PK.
* Medium to large player-base online (50 - 200).
* Multiple races, with stark differences between them.
* Multiple classes or guilds (including multiple sub-classes) .
* Need light source (or infravision) to see in the dark.
* Role-play encouraged not enforced.
* Aging system.
* Great newbie tutorial.
* Save on quit (no inns required for saving equipment)

It would seem like there would be a lot of MUDs out there with all the requirements above, but I have yet to find one that has them all.

Materia Magica has all of them except aging (your characters age, but I don't think it affects your gameplay).

* Huge world - The world is GIGANTIC, especially if you choose to include the overland as part of the world (which would bump room count over 500,000 I believe).  Several continents that, if you had water walk or levitation, would take you at least a few hours to walk between (crossing the ocean in the middle directly once took me about 2.5 hours, luckily I had bought a nice pair of levitation boots from auction so I could walk & sleep in the air over the water.  The sharks were disappointed)
* Multiple starting cities - Yep, the city you start in depends on your class chosen and I think race as well.  However, you don't START there.  Everyone starts in the "newbie village" of Lasler that has some basic starting quests and low-level mobs so that you can get some basic equipment and learn the game without griefing (players lvl 12+ cannot enter Lasler).  You are given a runestone of your "starting" city that you can use to teleport to that city (up to... four?... times).   The cities are actually DIFFERENT too: there's a "warrior" town whose city laws forbid magic, so there's these obelisks throughout the city that prevent magic use, etc.
* Food/Water required to survive - Yep, if you don't eat and drink, at first you'll just regen slower. Then you stop regenerating health/mana.  Then, I think, you lose health.  Also, at least one of the races, the fey, requires blood not water.  So you have to collect blood in your skin from a blood fountain for from your kills.  No blood = death
* Serious Swords/Sorcery -  Yep. Not sure how serious you mean, but it's at least not Discworld humor (as good as that stuff is).  I should mention that if you're going to be a wizard many of your spells will require reagents to use, but if you're a psionic only the extremely high level ones do.  Also, spells for wizards are stored in spellbooks that can only hold so many "points" worth of spells.  Some spellbooks have special stat bonuses, so thats good.
* Combat focused with crafting - Yeah, combat is a biggie in the game.  Crafting is not exactly fleshed out but they're working on it (games been around for about 10 years and they're just NOW adding a big crafting system...)
* Restricted PK - the PK system is room based, with three levels: Lawful PK rooms mean players kill each other with no permanent loss (you die you get thrown to the entrance with reduced health).  Just for fun or arena fights.  Neutral PK rooms are similar but when you die you actually die (go to the Underworld (of which there are two, one for sidhe/fey another for all others).  Level 25 or over to fight.  Finally, there's Chaotic PK - you die here, you die like in NPK.  BUT, you drop a corpse... which can be looted of inventory... and some equipment... Level 45 or above to be a target here.  There's all kinds of PK events too like a capture the flag and Clan Arena challenges. here for more
* Player base - almost ALWAYS between 150 and 200 people on.  Largest I ever saw was 350 people, but I guess their record was around 450 once.
* Multiple races - yep 12 races with fairly big differences between them. Here is their info.  Differences include the blood drinking I mentioned above as well as some innate abilities such as night vision.
* Multiple classes/guilds - Hell yes: Class Info with detailed info on all.  Also, there's a kick-ass guild system in place.  The classes are all pretty unique, such as the bard class which plays spells that are based on notes (A B B A C, etc)
* Need light source - yep, which also allows for problems like blindness.  There are areas that are pitch black throughout meaning you can't even see the exits.  That's a LOT of fun when you get lost...  Just dont' forget to throw some extra torches and oil refills for your lanterns into your pack before going on long trips.
* Role play encourged - yep, there are a few role-players. It's not the biggest Role-playing MUD there is but some people do it because they enjoy it. Here's their blurb about it.
* Great newbie tutorial - Yep, the first twelve rooms or so of the staring village is an awesome tutorial on the basics.  Not to mention that this game has THE ABSOLUTE BEST HELP DATABASE I'VE EVER SEEN.  I cannot stress that enough.  The help system in Materia Magica is LEAGUES above all other MUDS I've played.
* Save on quit - yep, just type quit.  Auto-saving on exit too.  If you quit during a fight you'll stay in the fight though, so no cheating.  If you flee the fight THEN quit you're good though and you're player "vanishes into thin air" or whatever the in-game description is.

So yeah, all but one thing.   There's an awesome Mark system (similar to achievements I guess), Seafaring in which you can actually buy your own boat, a housing system (btw that's a help page.. so much detail) where you can get yourself a house in your favorite city.  There's also a really good death system (another help page).  The game is awesome and I really recommend it.

[Soulwynd]

I couldn't bear myself to like materiamagica, I don't know, the first 10 times I tried to play it.

I used to program my own muds, I was largely satisfied with them, but it became too much trouble when I went to college and nowadays, I have no patience for them.

For the record, I hate rooms, I hate having to read rooms descriptions, I like ascii mapped muds better.

[lumin]

I still haven't found the "ideal" MUD yet.  Maybe somebody could help me find one with the following requirements:

* Huge world: 20,000+ rooms.
* Multiple starting cities to choose from.
* Food/water is required to survive.
* Serious Swords & Sorcery theme.
* Combat focused with crafting on the side.
* Restricted PK.
* Medium to large player-base online (50 - 200).
* Multiple races, with stark differences between them.
* Multiple classes or guilds (including multiple sub-classes) .
* Need light source (or infravision) to see in the dark.
* Role-play encouraged not enforced.
* Aging system.
* Great newbie tutorial.
* Save on quit (no inns required for saving equipment)

It would seem like there would be a lot of MUDs out there with all the requirements above, but I have yet to find one that has them all.

Materia Magica has all of them except aging (your characters age, but I don't think it affects your gameplay).

I've played Materia Magica once before.  I kind of feel the same way as Soulwynd on it.  I don't know exactly what bothered me about it, but I just got burned out after I finished the newbie village.  Maybe I'll give it another go.

By the way, for those who like Dartmud, I'd recommend Accursed Lands.  It's very similar, but even more hardcore.

[wallish]

I've played Materia Magica once before.  I kind of feel the same way as Soulwynd on it.  I don't know exactly what bothered me about it, but I just got burned out after I finished the newbie village.  Maybe I'll give it another go.

By the way, for those who like Dartmud, I'd recommend Accursed Lands.  It's very similar, but even more hardcore.

Yeah, if you've played the newbie village once, you shouldn't really play it again without just straight-lacing a guide to get all of its bonuses.  But the rest of the game is pretty great, especially if you're trying to get to a much higher level to get your third class.

I don't know when you last played it but they've added a "hardcore" mode in which you have a limited number of live available.  And like I said they're working on a crafting system with blacksmithing, mining, weaving, logging, etc.

[Hawkfrost]

I don't know, I'm currently playing Materia Magica and enjoying it.

I agree that the tutorial is good, and I like how you can end it at any time.

It IS frustrating that I can kill a thief, hyena, dog or pixie, but a giant grasshopper can utterly destroy me.

[wallish]

I don't know, I'm currently playing Materia Magica and enjoying it.

I agree that the tutorial is good, and I like how you can end it at any time.

It IS frustrating that I can kill a thief, hyena, dog or pixie, but a giant grasshopper can utterly destroy me.

PROTIP: Make sure you use the "consider" (or just 'con') command before fighting.  And if there is more than one enemy in the room use 'look [enemy]' to see if they're in a formation.

[moocowmoo]

I've played Medievia on and off for like 7 years. It still gets around 150-200 people on at peak times. I wouldn't call it deep but it's solid and addictive.

[lumin]

I've played Medievia on and off for like 7 years. It still gets around 150-200 people on at peak times. I wouldn't call it deep but it's solid and addictive.

I've dabbled with Medievia before.  It has some really amazing features, like real weather patterns and enemy scaling.  The only thing that bothers me is the limited class selection (only 4).  I know they are trying to shoot for balance, but I've got to have lots and lots of choices in a MUD for it to keep me playing, even at the sacrifice of balance.

[lumin]

I've found a really good MUD, possibly one of the best I've played.  It's called Shattered Kingdoms.

It has the following:

* Huge world: 30,000+ rooms.
* Multiple starting cities to choose from.
* Food/water is not required for survival, but causes you to regain constitution/life faster.
* Serious Swords & Sorcery theme.
* Lots of combat.
* Un-restricted PK.
* Small - Medium player-base online (20 - 50).
* Multiple races, with stark differences between them.
* Multiple classes.
* Need light source (or infravision) to see in the dark.
* Role-play enforced.
* Aging system.  When you age, you actually become less strong, and more wise.
* Good newbie tutorial.
* Save on quit (no inns required for saving equipment)
* Very nice seasonal weather effects.

The world is made up of several major cities, with a huge ascii outer world map.  Descriptions are extremely well written, the MUD even uses nice colors for objects and blinking colors for torches and magical things.

Role-playing is very, very good.  It uses the anonymous naming system like Cantr.  So you may see a "Fat Dwarf" walk in the room.  Until you "greet" them, you won't know their name.  There is no universal language.  Every player is born speaking their own language and must learn others to communicate with outsiders.

The players online are good at role-playing as well.  The game does not have any global chat system either, so you basically need to seek out players who can teach you (the help docs are pretty good though).  The inns are cool too, they actually heal you faster when resting or sleeping in one.  This is also the place where you learn some skills, so it's common to see players gathered here partying up and having a good drink.

Death is semi-permanent.  If you are killed you become a ghost forever until you are resurrected.  There are many ways of being resurrected and you can make a spiritual visitations to living players, but only players which you have met in life.

Combat is good and very descriptive and not horribly difficult to level.  Even though there's perma-death, you won't have to worry about dying often (I've played 14 hours and haven't died yet).  Travelling long distances is realistic and actually when you get tired, you will need to sleep for several game hours to replenish your constitution.

Oh, and did I mention you can be a Swashbuckler, my favorite class of all time!?   

So, basically it has the best of both worlds: fun hacknslash and hardcore RP all rolled into one sweet little ball of love. 

[Jay]

I've found a really good MUD, possibly one of the best I've played.  It's called Shattered Kingdoms.
*Holy snip, batman!*

That's all well and good, but uh, you forgot the link...

[McDoomhammer]

Googling "Shattered kingdoms MUD" would seem to do the trick.

[lumin]

Googling "Shattered kingdoms MUD" would seem to do the trick.

The site is kind of pitiful (as are most MUD sites), but the maps are useful. 

The early training academy is kind of dull, so give it some time before you give up, once you get out of the academy, it's a very interesting world.

[Jay]

Googling "Shattered kingdoms MUD" would seem to do the trick.

Yeah..  But the whole point is, you should provide links to something if you're going to write a post that long about it.
www.shatteredkingdoms.org/
There.

[Old-Man-Gator]

The newbie friendliness of SK is so awesome, when you die you lose your stuff and never get it back. Because you are too poor at fighting and whatever to ever re-equip.

That is made of win!