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Author Topic: Room valuation techniques  (Read 972 times)

LumenPlacidum

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Room valuation techniques
« on: October 02, 2008, 12:56:27 am »

I've been giving some thought to the notion of how to evaluate the quality of rooms in the fortress and I'd like to share my current thoughts on the matter.  It seems like a more processor-intensive solution isn't a horrible idea since the value of a room changes very infrequently.

There are some basic ideas that I'm trying to incorporate into my method:
1) Big rooms tend to be higher-valued.  Or, at least, small claustrophobic rooms are lower-valued.
2) High-quality materials that go into a room reflect the overall quality of the room.
3) Interesting architectural designs should make for higher-quality rooms.
4) Emphasis should be placed on the effective and dramatic placement of furniture.

Then I got to thinking that maybe (1) is not really about the overall dimensions of the room.  A common theme in architectural design is that a space does not have to be big to feel big.  Peoples' perceptions of the space really change the way they appreciate it.  As such, I think value of a space should depend on the way it's actually perceived.  Essentially, when a room is created or re-sized, the game looks at the walkable squares in the room and considers what's visible from each location.  In doing so, the game can see what the big corridors of vision are in a room.

These corridors of vision are essentially line segments within the room itself.  The important part of those segments are the endpoints.  After the game identifies several critical corridors of vision (the longest segments would be preferentially more important), it labels the endpoints of these axes as critical locations.  Furniture placed in a critical location is scrutinized much more by the valuation process than furniture placed elsewhere.  The process would then look at each piece of critical furniture.  Starting with the actual monetary value of the item, this value can be enhanced by considering the visibility of the item.  Open spaces around the item are good.  Materials that contrast with those of other things in surrounding spaces would be a boost.  In this case, special cases can be defined.  A statue would greatly benefit from its surrounding tiles being water in a reflecting pool.

I think every item should detract from the value of items in close proximity, with some exceptions.  Two statues placed side-by-side is design-wise a dangerous thing.  If the quality isn't closely matched and the materials complementary then it doesn't work.  The worse of them brings down the value of the better.  In DF, I think an item should suffer a penalty of a slight proportion of the difference in value between itself and its surrounding items.  This would include engravings.  However, some items are designed to be placed together, like tables and chairs.  These would not decrease value.

The ultimate effect here would be to make rooms with longer lanes that have interesting things at either end more valuable.  This method would be ideal for modeling the display garden of your artifacts, and having the artifacts stand alone in their own exhibit down the hallway where you can see it as you approach.  Rooms like these will start to become relatively more valuable than simply cramming a current room with engravings and hoping for the best.



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Pilsu

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Re: Room valuation techniques
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2008, 02:09:49 am »

Seems pretty tedious to code
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John Johnston

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Re: Room valuation techniques
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2008, 08:06:01 am »

I like the idea that items in the room should be checked to see if they are "compatible" with items next to them.
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Alabaster

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Re: Room valuation techniques
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2008, 08:33:34 am »

Imagine a diminutive race of humanoids that live in poorly lit underground spaces.  I'm not sure, but I don't think any dwarf would get far in the competition on Top Designer.

Personally, until the game is realised in a graphical 3d presentation, I'd rather not be forced to micromanage the compatabilities of the tower-cap bed I'm placing next to a flint cabinet in a 2x1 room for a soapmaker, nor the "corridors of vision" within my legendary throne room.

However, you do open up some interesting ideas of having bonuses drawn from complimentary set items.  Such as if every chair and table in the dining room is made of the same stone.  I wouldn't penalize room value if it wasn't, but it would be interesting to offer bonuses for matching a set.  For example a statue garden of all golden statues.

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illiterate

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Re: Room valuation techniques
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2008, 10:12:40 am »

What about matching vs. color-coordination?

Silver might look **** next to orthoclase, but very nice against jet. 

Again, coding on this would be highly subjective, possibly very tedious.  Might be a worthwhile way to increase the value of a room.

Shouldn't this thread have gone in suggestions?   You're suggesting changes to the way the game evaluates room quality, not how to make the room more valuable in the current system.  I am not saying this is a bad thread, but not sure it belongs here. 
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KoE

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Re: Room valuation techniques
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2008, 01:30:47 pm »

Imagine a diminutive race of humanoids that live in poorly lit underground spaces.  I'm not sure, but I don't think any dwarf would get far in the competition on Top Designer.

Well to my knowledge, dwarves typically have nightvision (and presumably do in DF, unless they've learned to do everything by touch), so one could make the argument that everything but color matters. On the other hand, this is a race who admires traps and the no-quality microline couch your mason just pumped out, not to mention their tendency to forget the most horrible of tragedies over a good drink and a nice meal in a room with engravings of various unspeakable atrocities (and the occasional tower cap/square/ballista arrow).

Seriously, though, a crash course in interior design isn't something I'd be likely to take (particularly given the subjectivity - would what looked good the dwarves please all the OCD people in 2D?), and seems to be taking detail to a new extreme. Of course, the plus side is that even your peasants can own (and afford!) that artifact cabinet so long as you stick enough gaudy, horrible (by comparison) -microline chests- next to it. The system does need an overhaul, given how a legendary dining room basically wins the game, but this may be a bit too far.
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Borgin

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Re: Room valuation techniques
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2008, 03:21:32 pm »

However, you do open up some interesting ideas of having bonuses drawn from complimentary set items.  Such as if every chair and table in the dining room is made of the same stone.  I wouldn't penalize room value if it wasn't, but it would be interesting to offer bonuses for matching a set.  For example a statue garden of all golden statues.
Completely agreed. While I might not have room value increase based on the matchy-ness of items, it could certainy increase the room's "perceived value"; that is, dwarves might get a much happier thought eating in an all-Diorite-furniture mess hall than one with Gabbro, Diorite, Marble, and Olivine. It could also increase perceived room value for nobles- a Noble room of all Golden furniture might be worth one with mismatched but higher-quality furniture, for example.
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Spoggerific

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Re: Room valuation techniques
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2008, 05:52:22 pm »

I don't mind the whole mismatching brings the room value down thing, but in order for it to work it needs the following to be implemented.

  • Ability to choose what material a workshop makes an item out of
  • The ability to engrave constructions, so we can wall-over various veins in a room
  • An easier way to choose exactly what gets decorated with what
  • Finally, the ability to choose a "theme" for an engraving, like battles, art (random objects), history, etc.

With those, room design might actually be really fun. I'd support the inclusion of all of these ideas.
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