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[CobaltKobold]

That's not to say that physical dimorphism won't happen in a fantasy world. Nothing stops the gods from deciding that males should be huge and females tiny, for example. It may be based on aesthetics and not evolution, but it should still be accounted for.

And nothing is to stop the gods from doing the opposite, or nothing at all, or something extreme.

except, ya know, the raws not supporting it...

yet

[eerr]

on the topic of ants, the queen only mates once.
males and females both work, and any ant that seems like it might mate out of line is litterally smelled out and killed

[eerr]

As I am just one silly males of the pitiful human species, you can take this statement with as many grains of salt as is needed it to make palatable for you.

An average of females and males of our species tends to result in finding females to be superior in nearly every way to males.  Males tend to have a greater maximum strength; but using a formula of weight*time held, females take the lead.  Pain threashold, which relates to toughness, also tend to go to the women.  Agility, is generally a matter of flexibility, and yet again the things that pratice this are shunned by men and embraced by women.

Face it boys, you are out classed by women.  The best thing we can do for our dwarves is put nonmarried women into our military.

i disagree, with pain threshold women are not as willing to ignore pain. muscle strength is enhanced in men through positioning, while muscle endurance is altered based on what type of muscle tissue is stimluated to develop.

flexibility just doesn't matter that much.

[CobaltKobold]

DF dwarfs =/= Humans =/= DF humans

[eerr]

so boobs don't interfere with agility?

[Techhead]

Good idea.  Could be done as easily as this:

[SELECT_SYMBOL:NAME_MALE:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:NAME_MALE:FLOWERY]

"Cog Viscouspetunias"

[Sutremaine]

so boobs don't interfere with agility?

Depends how good your bra is.

[Len B]

I also like the gender-neutral treatment of DF.  However, gender is still a characteristic, and I'd like to see support for all kinds of hooks in the RAWs for all the clever modders (or the horribly offended) out there to alter things to their own liking.

***

Urist McBouldercleavage recently received a happy thought the support of her masterfully crafted Giant Spider Silk bra, with Adamantine underwire, decorated with rings of elf bone, goblin teeth, and obsidian.  It menaces with spikes of giant carp fin.

If gender differences go in, we need happy thoughts for males with their masterfully crafted uh, support undergarmets.  Different, but equal.

[Sergius]

Didn't Xena had a baby once in the middle of a swordfight? I think she actually strangled her foe with the umbilical cord.

[Sergius]

For names, if the civ sees Hares, Cups, Donkeys, and Plump Helmets as feminine objects, then they'd have names based on Hares, Cups, Donkeys, and Plump Helmets for their women.

That's actually a pretty good idea. I wonder how it would be implemented tho, it can't be in the object raws because it's a civ thing. It's in the language raws? A tag that says a noun is "feminine" or "masculine". For some cultures there are gender-neutral names tho.

[Granite26]

except, ya know, the raws not supporting it...

yet

Yeah, back when this topic started, the new release wasn't on the horizon.  Castes look like they'll do 90% of what has been suggested, and even allow ant queens, etc, as a third 'caste'.  Hell, xenomorphs should be possible, with facehuggers, snakes, warriors, praetorians and the queen all being separate castes with differing roles, although the lifecycle won't be right.

I really don't understand how people think modelling a culture that keeps it's women locked up is morally worse than modelling a culture that steals babies, tortures it's leaders or cannibalizes it's foes.

[G-Flex]

Well, as far as cannibalizing the dead goes, I think there's something more wrong with mistreating the living than mistreating the dead. But your point stands, yeah.

I think introducing sex differences in DF would have to be handled extremely carefully. For instance, if women are treated as having less strength but more flexibility or whatever other arbitrary characteristic, it should only be on a statistical model, such that there still CAN be strong women and weak men, for instance. And any differences (at least in any race supposedly similar to real humans in the ways we're talking) would have to be very minimal, because the last thing anybody would want is for the game to appear sexist or anything like that. Of course, if a creature is obviously supposed to have DECIDEDLY different features between sex (like if goblin women are ten feet tall or kobold men have little tusks and kobold women don't), that's different.

[Pilsu]

Heaven forbid a game where you can steal a baby and push your thumbs into it's eyes might have 14th century sexism

Leave your prejudices at the door, being able to mod meaningful genders would be a good feature no matter how abused.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Those women aren't real.

Hmm, spousal abuse.. Perhaps resulting from unhappiness, a special kind of tantrum. Whether it's punished at all would be subject to civ ethics and whether both genders can do it should be in the raws with the rest of the gender features

[Granite26]

Well, as far as cannibalizing the dead goes, I think there's something more wrong with mistreating the living than mistreating the dead. But your point stands, yeah.

I think introducing sex differences in DF would have to be handled extremely carefully. For instance, if women are treated as having less strength but more flexibility or whatever other arbitrary characteristic, it should only be on a statistical model, such that there still CAN be strong women and weak men, for instance. And any differences (at least in any race supposedly similar to real humans in the ways we're talking) would have to be very minimal, because the last thing anybody would want is for the game to appear sexist or anything like that. Of course, if a creature is obviously supposed to have DECIDEDLY different features between sex (like if goblin women are ten feet tall or kobold men have little tusks and kobold women don't), that's different.

My understanding is that (using the DF model) Men should require few XP points in strength to gain a point (develop muscle mass easier and faster) but the food intake of anybody would go up with strength (muscle mass).

Do you really think it would be sexist to say that guys are generally stronger than gals?

[bjlong]

For names, if the civ sees Hares, Cups, Donkeys, and Plump Helmets as feminine objects, then they'd have names based on Hares, Cups, Donkeys, and Plump Helmets for their women.

That's actually a pretty good idea. I wonder how it would be implemented tho, it can't be in the object raws because it's a civ thing. It's in the language raws? A tag that says a noun is "feminine" or "masculine". For some cultures there are gender-neutral names tho.

Yes, I imagine everything that is "sexed" would have possible masculine, feminine, and neuter tags, maybe with more if there are more genders in the game.

It would be interesting for a civ to go through and make nouns masculine, feminine or neuter, but that usually makes for linguistic differences. I imagined something like the current sphere system--we have several "name concepts," that are either hardcoded to be masculine, feminine or neuter, or otherwise we can allow the RNG to associate those concepts with genders as they please.

What would be nice about these concepts is that they can change from civ to civ without any big linguistic confusion. Even better would be if these concepts start getting involved in actions, for example having tending hares being viewed as a feminine act.

Warning: I am not a programmer. I probably suggested something that requires quantum computing somewhere.