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[Granite26]

What do you mean? I said two things: One, that women are biologically, statistically, slower to develop strength,

Yet that does not mean lower strength capacity.

That's exactly what I mean- that the potential is there. It just takes more work to get it.

I disagree

[G-Flex]

Yeah, but even those really basic activities can still be CHOSEN because men tend to be good at them; for example, if men tended to suck at some jumping activity, they probably wouldn't turn it into a sport, perhaps.

What?  The discussion is about raw physical capability in some basic activity like lifting objects or footspeed.  Can you think of a better way to measure footspeed than comparing footspeed?

Oh, of course. I agree with that. I'm just saying that the basic activities which men are good at would historically be more likely to become publicized sporting events, perhaps.

[Granite26]

Yeah, but even those really basic activities can still be CHOSEN because men tend to be good at them; for example, if men tended to suck at some jumping activity, they probably wouldn't turn it into a sport, perhaps.

What?  The discussion is about raw physical capability in some basic activity like lifting objects or footspeed.  Can you think of a better way to measure footspeed than comparing footspeed?

Oh, of course. I agree with that. I'm just saying that the basic activities which men are good at would historically be more likely to become publicized sporting events, perhaps.

I dunno, I'm suffering from a bad case of the Politically Correct Internet, but it seems to me that most of the major, classical, olympic sports were based around individual combat skills (AKA exactly what we care about)

The Olympic games were not proving grounds for real combat. Just because skills in the Olympics matched valued martial skills does not mean the Greeks assumed the best wrestler made the best fighter. The games were more symbolic, religious, and entertaining. Unlike hoplite, team-style warfare, the ancient Olympics were individual sports which allowed an individual Greek to win glory. Today's Olympics, in a world described as narcissistic, where warfare is distant, involving only small clusters of people, being part of a gold-winning team confers honor just as well. Ritualized sport, whether team or individual, continues to be an outlet for or way to sublimate humanity's aggression.1

Is a good example of the PCness, if not the best 'Sports were originally ritualized demonstrations of war prowess' support.

So yeah, I disagree with ya'

[LegoLord]

Jeanne d'Arc through crafty manipulation of her peers was able to win the trust of the government of France and gained some degree of leadership over the French military [the actual extent of which is unknown], and proceeded to... Well, fail, but she gets an A for Effort.

And it should be noted that this was the French medieval military, which historically had few victories, unfortunately.

Nah, screw that... Joan D'Arc was a special woman...  Which goes to the center of it.  People can accomplish anything, but some people start at a disadvantage.  That makes it MORE impressive when they accomplish great things.

Joan D'Arc was not actually from France.  That was another oddity of that military; victory came more often under foreign leaders.  But yes, she did accomplish great things.

[Arkenstone]

You know, DF2010 makes put of what this thread's asking for into the game, with castes.  The differences between men and women now becomes a question only of modding; unless you really want to insist it be in vanilla DF.

[Sizik]

You know, DF2010 makes put of what this thread's asking for into the game, with castes.  The differences between men and women now becomes a question only of modding; unless you really want to insist it be in vanilla DF.

This thread is almost as old as 40d, you know.

[Arkenstone]

I know, i got the warning when I posted.  I just wanted to tell everyone that they should probly change their eternal voting thing.

[Shurhaian]

Agreed. Is there any reason for this to still be on the suggestions list? It doesn't currently have many votes, but at 6, it doesn't have none, either.

If this isn't clarified soon, might be worth sending a PM to the OP about it; it's a complex enough issue that I for one wouldn't want to just suggest to Toady that he scrub it from the voting list without offering a chance to refine it.

[Pilsu]

While replying to posts whose age is measured in years is rather pointless, I have to wonder how people can assume a bunch of naked men wrestling is some sort of war demonstration.

[Sergius]

For example: pole vaulting was not a war thingy. It was used by regular folks at ancient Greece to get over canals and stuff because they were too lazy to walk to a nearby bridge.

[Arkenstone]

What bridge?  Bridgebuilding is a very complex art, and the widespread existence of bridges did not occur until the Roman era.

[Rotten]

What bridge?  Bridgebuilding is a very complex art, and the widespread existence of bridges did not occur until the Roman era.

Take plank
Lay over canal
Be a roman 

But yeah, no. Bridges existed before the Romans. Perhaps not very long or arched bridges, but normal ones certainly existed.

[darkflagrance]

For example: pole vaulting was not a war thingy. It was used by regular folks at ancient Greece to get over canals and stuff because they were too lazy to walk to a nearby bridge.

I'm too lazy to walk, so I'll just practice a dangerous Olympic sport instead

[Arkenstone]

What bridge?  Bridgebuilding is a very complex art, and the widespread existence of bridges did not occur until the Roman era.

Take plank
Lay over canal
Be a roman 

But yeah, no. Bridges existed before the Romans. Perhaps not very long or arched bridges, but normal ones certainly existed.

Really? Where'd you get the 50 ft. long plank that wont bend or sag in the middle?  And how about removing it when the next barge comes through?  I am CERTAIN that the greeks didn't have drawbridges.

[Max White]

So, generic debate any point you can thread?

Because debating on the internet is productive!