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[Granite26]

There's a lot of discussion about some tactics being unbalanced, unfair, cheesy or otherwise downright exploitive.  I wanted to open up a bit of a discussion to try to reach some form of consensus on what constitutes legitamate play strategies, what constitutes cheesy or exploitive tactics, and what represents out and out cheating.

I'll refrain from stating my opinions at this point, but some of the hotly contested items are:

Traps : Number of them, placement of them, using them at all
Player Traps : Harder to make, but also harder for NPCs to avoid
Atom Smashers :
Quantum Stockpiles : (Using dumps to stack more items on one square than normal with the intention of un-dumping them)
Quantum Dumps : (Just dumping all the stone on one square)
Crossbows : High Portion of your army
Modded Races : Using excessively powerful races, using boosted races
Modded World : Adding in extra weapons or more powerful metals.
Perpetual Motion : Using the holes in the mechanics scheme to avoid the need to use external power (one waterfall provides way more power than it takes to pump the water back up)
Pathfinding : Exploiting the pathfinding AI with moats or blocking off passages that a truly intelligent entity could figure out.
Nobles : Killing off nobles because of their demands
Sheriff/Hammerer : There are a number of ways to short circuit the judicial system by crippling the hammerer, not appointing a sheriff, or generally breaking the law enforcement system.

Feel free to add to this list.

A few points: Please refrain from 'I think people should play how they want' type comments.  Of course people should play how they want.  The point here is to establish a baseline.  If you didn't care about the other players you wouldn't be reading the forum.

I'm curious about whether people think a strategy is cheating, is cheesy, or is perfectly acceptable.

[Golgath]

I'll try to answer them in order:

Traps: Only kind I use myself are small amounts of cage traps, for the purpose of catching megabeasts.
Player Traps: These are generally overpowered as well, but it is quite nice to see your magma room slowly fill as the goblins huddle together in an attempt to stave off their doom..
Atom Smashers: I never use them, myself.  They sound a bit overpowered.
Quantum Stockpiles: Only way to deal with excess stone in the short term, when the sight of it bothers you.  =P
Modded Races: I quite enjoy modded races.  It would be more difficult if I used normal dwarves, but I'm not into DF so I can be irritated, and I'm having plenty of fun as it is.
Modded World: I use the mineral mod, and it doesn't really feel overpowered to me, though I can't make half the new metals anyway...

I don't think it is a very good idea to establish a 'baseline', as everyone plays differently.  Trying to force everyone who joins the forums into a specific play-type (or even a few different types) doesn't strike me as productive or helpful.

[Granite26]

I don't think it is a very good idea to establish a 'baseline', as everyone plays differently.  Trying to force everyone who joins the forums into a specific play-type (or even a few different types) doesn't strike me as productive or helpful.

a baseline is more a basis for comparison than it is a 'you will do it this way'.  You can't force anybody into anything, but you can establish a consensus understanding for what most other people are doing in their games.  I'm curious what percentage of people don't use traps or use homebrew uncoded restrictions on them to limit their utility.  It's not 'force' it's 'understand what others are doing', especially where the base game is unbalancedly easy, but people will play modded out races with uncoded restrictions on their play.

[Jay]

In a game like DF, people who play fair lose.

[Golgath]

a baseline is more a basis for comparison than it is a 'you will do it this way'.  You can't force anybody into anything, but you can establish a consensus understanding for what most other people are doing in their games.  I'm curious what percentage of people don't use traps or use homebrew uncoded restrictions on them to limit their utility.  It's not 'force' it's 'understand what others are doing', especially where the base game is unbalancedly easy, but people will play modded out races with uncoded restrictions on their play.

Ah.  I was thinking more along the line of a 'Standard' where if you go outside the restrictive rules you were ridiculed. 

[KaelGotDwarves]

Modifying reactions

[puke]

its a single player game.  play it however makes you happy.  let others do the same.

unless your playstyle differs from mine.  in which case you're doing it wrong and need to reform your ways.

[inaluct]

I usually play vanilla DF, avoid atom smashers, and try and avoid quantum stockpiles. I dump certain stones and they can pile up sometimes, but I try and keep it from getting too big. In my first fort, before I knew how powerful traps were, nearly every square anywhere near my entrances or chokepoints was trapped. I put randomly placed weapon traps in the wilderness. Now, I try and use them sparingly.

[McDoomhammer]

Modding:  Never felt the urge to do so.

Player traps:  Fair.  They reward effort and creativity.  Plus they're cool.

Quantum stockpiles:  I don't use them, as the lack of realism bothers me.  I'm perfectly happy for my dwarves to toss things in the river or off the nearest cliff, and even recover things where that's practical- I figure the added risk to them in venturing outside is the payoff.

The others I have either never used or do not have a strong opinion about.

[1138]

I would say that once you've modded the raws in some way, you're technically "cheating" although that's not the ideal word for the situation, since I would count it the same if you've modded the raws to make the game harder.

As for ingame, I would say that if it's there it's fair play. I balk at using the dump and hide designations, though. I've never tried the atom smasher, although I certainly don't see a problem with using it on smaller creatures. Smashing megabeasts with it, as well as trapping said megabeasts in cages, seems a bit wrong. I try not to build wooden walls for my magma reservoir. I've always cooked alcohol in the past, but I'm trying to get away from that. Honestly can't see the problem people have with crossbows, other than the speed of firing.

[Mister Thou]

Well, I use traps very seldom, but have no problem using player traps.
A horrible accident or several has caused me to not use atom smashers for defense, but they are appealing if they can help increase fps.
I have only used quantum stockpiles for aiding with building large constructions.
Number of x-bows depends solely on my mood.
No modding of any kind.

You could also mention the ridiculously over-common GCS silk clothing.

[Tormy]

I am playing with these "settings" nowadays...

Traps/Defensive mechanisms : Not allowed
Moats: Not allowed
Army : Everything allowed
Modded Races : Yes, some "fine tuning" is needed. Make all civilizations a bit more powerful, IE raise the size of the creatures a bit, and give them more damblock for example...
Modded World : Not needed to be honest, however you can play around with the other civs and give them better items even if you want

[Charlemagne]

This is the third or fourth time I've heard reference to "atom smashers" here. Can someone briefly explain the what the term refers to in DF?

[Lostereadamy]

This is the third or fourth time I've heard reference to "atom smashers" here. Can someone briefly explain the what the term refers to in DF?

Drawbridges set to open up. You lift them with a lever, then put stuff underneath you wanna get rid of- anything- and then pull the lever. It simply ceases to exist. No bones, no debris, nothing, its just not there anymore.

[Jude]

here are the settings I generally like to use:

Traps : I try to avoid them except in the very beginning when I don't have a decent military yet and there are dangerous predatory animals around. My current fort had a single line of weapon traps in the front entrance, and two cage traps (entrance is 3 tiles wide) behind those. I removed the weapon traps but left the cage ones, since they only go off once and I wanted to catch some goblins or better yet, humans.

Player Traps : Haven't used them, except for my magma doomsday device
Atom Smashers : Haven't used them, but I view them much the same as traps: I wouldn't use them for killing things (makes it too easy) but it's not like I view them as "wrong" or whatever.
Quantum Stockpiles : If I don't have magma or a chasm, I use 'em. Mainly because spare stone is a pain in the ass.

Crossbows : They're 40% of my army right now (4/10). I don't see that much wrong with them, but I haven't had that much experience with military encounters. If I find they're overpowered, I'll stop using them for fun's sake. They're also very handy for taking care of harassing monsters.

Mods: haven't gotten into them at all